Today I had my first appointment with an actual therapist (not a counselor).
Even though one hour wasn't long enough to spew out everything I need to talk about, this woman completely picked up on 2 truly major points.
1) Even ONE of the stressors I have been dealing with over the last year is more than enough to warrant therapy!
2) I have been the "caregiver " for everyone in my family since I was 12 years old!
She asked me what I do for myself?
I had absolutely no answer!!
Hence therapy!! Lol
Caring for a narcissistic LO is a labor of love!
Not because they will love us back, but because we need to love ourselves!!
How do you keep caring selflessly for your selfish LO?
What do you do for yourself?
(((Hugs)))
I pray that's true!!
God knows my brother had his demons!
He was unwilling to except my help or advice.
God knows I tried to help!!
I wonder if my NM is simply trying to deflect blame or guilt by passing the buck !
I mean, surely she must feel some sort of responsibility?
Is it possible that narcissists truly don't feel any sense of responsibility for their actions?
Or do they feel it and use the blame game to mask their feelings?
It boggles the mind!!
As usual, spot on!!
I think about my brother that committed suicide 3 years ago.
He was my half brother from my NM first marriage.
My Dad adopted him at age 4 .
My Dad may not have been perfect, but he did the best he could trying to raise my brother who was always very troubled. I know that my NM intervened any time my Dad tried to impose punishment for my brother's bad behavior!
My Mom blames my Dad for everything issue my brother ever had! Never taking into consideration that his bio Dad never wanted to have anything to do with him!
My brother lived in my younger brothers basement. Because of his bad choices, he had no life. Yet my NM continued to defend and caudle him to us(his siblings).
The morning before he killed himself, my NM had been berating him for something. She did this often! She doesn't think I know!
My NM places all the blame on my Dad and my sister in law (my younger brothers wife).
It's ALWAYS someone else's fault!!
I pray when we pass that we understand the hurt we caused and can send healing to the LOs we've hurt and taken for granted!
#truth
Every thing is about them...every thought...every desire...every emotion...every want...every need...every decision is about them.
I have looked over my life as if I was an outsider and picked it apart a million times and put it back together again and every thing that went wrong in my family is because of my NM made decisions based on HER OWN understanding and what SHE wanted.
These women are 6 yrs old and played house and we were their dolls!
I have read on the Narcissistic Personality Disorder brains. The part of the brain that is responsible for empathy is dead. In a CT scan and a MRI shows no activity in that part of the brain. No Empathy = No Remorse! Their brains don't process information like ours does. They usually have an I.Q. (not all) lower than average. They have no E.Q. (Emotional Intelligence). They are emotionally stunted. And the worst part is, they NEVER test their own thinking & understanding and they don't trust anybody else's abilities of thinking; therefore, they lead to their own understanding, which can and does lead into problems. They have no idea the damage they cause and because they have no empathy; they don't think about what they say or do something how it can effect or what impact it makes on the person that they are saying or doing the thing too! However, they are clever! They learn very early how to behave or how to act in our society. They also learn what they can and can not do in front of certain people. Example, my NM never treated me bad in front of my dad. She showed me love (somewhat) and she "Acted" very caring in front of my dad, but the minute he went to work she was as cold as ice or beat the crap out of me! They also learn how to manipulate people and situations at an early age. They are extremely controlling and they know who they can control and who they can't. They do not like anyone who they can not control and they hate being faced with their own mistakes. They have a set of standards that everyone must meet, while they themselves can not meet their own set of standards. They know what hurts who and they are not afraid to use it! However, as you and most of us know, they take no responsibility for it! Nothing is ever their fault because that would mean they are less than perfect!
These women CAN NOT show love. Love by definition "Is putting someone's needs & wants before your own needs & wants" Weberster Dictionary. These women can not nor do they even know how to love someone. Back to the example of why we feed babies...if you never knew what love looks like or you don't understand what love is then how can you give love? You can't! You have to experiences love and you have to have the desire for love. In my opinion, these women do not desire real love. If they never wanted a hug then how do they know to hug us? They don't! My NM never hug, snuggle, or gave me kisses because she herself never got them, nor did she want them!!! "We can only truly love when we desire love!"
I really hope this helps!❤
Beautifully put!!
It's not like we can tell them to their face "I forgive you ".
Can you imagine how that conversation would go!! Lol
So we just have to wait until they're gone to let it go!
Have a great night ALL!!!
Lea hit the nail on BOTH HEADS!
LIke Lea stated "Unforgiveness is like drinking a bottle of poison hoping it will kill the other person." We forgive for ourselves. It sets us free! When we have Unforgiveness because someone (our NMs) hurt & did us wrong then they still have control over us. They're not still upset about things from 20 yrs ago or 10 yrs ago or 5 yrs ago or a year ago or even a few days ago. They forgot all about it! But we remember and we carry it with us everyday. We wake up with it and we go to bed with it! So really, who is free and who is not free? The answer, they are free...free to control us beyond the grave...free to have their words rolling around inside our heads...they die and we pick up where they left off. Telling ourselves that we should have done this better or done that better. That we're not good enough...not worthy of love, peace, joy...we still tell ourselves every nasty thing they have ever told us...whether we realize it or not! We make poor decisions because of the things they did & said to us...Are we free? Nope! Forgiveness=Freedom!
This is how I look at it, my NM stolen the first and part of the second half of my life. "She Will Not" & I repeat "She Will Not" steal the rest of my life. Now, if your wondering have I forgiven her? Nope! BUT I WILL!!! How? I made a pact to myself & I even told my NM this "When she dies I will bury her with my anger, bitterness, and resentment." When she dies I will be free to forgive because let's face it, it is really hard to forgive someone who keeps running over your foot with a truck! When someone keeps hurting you you really can't forgive them and anybody that tells you different has never really been that hurt!
Forgiveness is NOT about them nor is it saying what they did is okay. It is about you letting go all the negative emotions that THEY caused you. It is also about THEM NOT having control over you anymore!!!
Second nail: Lea is right! These women CAN NOT see past their own noses. They can't think things through when it comes to someone eles. Why do we feed babies? Because we know (from experience) that all living things have to eat. We know what it feels like to be hungry. Why? Because we have "EXPERIENCE IT!" These Narc women have no experience or capability of seeing things through someone else's eyes! They Can Not see past themselves! Their world is all about them and no one eles.
I'll explain in a new post...this one is getting a little long!
I honestly do not believe these women can see past the tips of their own noses, even while preparing to die. My own NM allowed her DH of 68 years to die w/o telling him he was a GOOD and decent man, and letting him believe he was worthless as a human being, right up until he died! WHO does that? A narc, that's who! Can't see past the tip of her own nose. Can't show love b/c they don't FEEL it. Unfortunately, all of that sickness THEY have affects OTHERS, namely US and all the poor family members they come in contact with! I'm sure your NM is horribly jealous of the relationships you've cultivated with your DH and his children and your dear grandchildren. FWIW, my mother says the same things about my DH (2nd marriage) and his kids/grandkids..........that they 'don't count' as my children or grandchildren or her great grandchildren, either. She knows it pisses me off when she says that, but honestly, it's what she FEELS! Just like she feels that I am not 'her child' b/c she adopted me. These women cannot love to BEGIN with, then throw in an 'adoptee' or children from a 2nd marriage and run for the hills! They're all up on their high horses passing judgment and letting us know how it 'doesn't count' and all that horse manure. Thank God WE know better and WE have the capacity in our hearts TO love and to recognize ALL of these wonderful kids as 'our own'.
As far as 'forgiveness' goes, how does one go about DOING that? We can use the words, "I forgive you", but to feel it in our hearts is quite another thing, I think. Forgiveness is for US, not for THEM. But again, I have no idea how to go about actually DOING it; accomplishing the goal which I've personally had for a very, very long time. Because the dirt keeps getting dished out; so just when I think 'maybe' I can do this, BOOM, here comes another low blow. And then I think, nope, not now, I can't do it. I pray about it all the time, too, asking for the WILLINGNESS to forgive, b/c that's really the crux of the matter: the willingness to let go of the angst. It's easier when my mother gets sad and weepy, wanting to 'go home' and see her 'papa'; that opens my heart and makes the possibility THERE b/c I can see her humanity. So I hope it's a doable thing for me and for you, too. For all of us actually, b/c carrying anger & resentment around is like drinking poison & hoping it will kill the other person.
Sending you a big hug tonight.
I think you need to do what feels best for you!!
What are you able to live with after she passes?
God knows she's given you a life time of grief and guilt!
I pray that you can live the rest of your life without NM causing guilt even after her death!!
You don't deserve that!! You've been a wonderful daughter!
God bless!!
(((Hugs)))
Background: I had no children. I made the mistake of telling my NM some 15 years ago I very much wanted children, but that it biologically couldn't happen at that point. I now have two adult children and four grandchildren by marriage, with whom I have an excellent loving, supporting relationship. They are the family I always desired, and I am good at being a wife, mother and grandmother. Those feelings amongst us are mutual. My NM is intensely jealous of these relationships, as they do not fit her narrative for me (ie. that I am too selfish and mean to have a good and loving relationship with my husband, his children and our grandchildren. I think she also resents seeing my family's healthy dynamics; I think she actually realizes that the family dynamic she gave her own husband and children was terribly flawed, and is embarrassed that I escaped its legacy, and have outed it for what it is.)
So: A few days after her hateful, spiteful words were repeated to me (via unwitting brother), I realized: she is 'projecting' her own feelings of having been a neglectful/abusive mother onto me, and absorbing the fact that her child (me) has seen through her 'mother' lie, and has rejected what she is. (Narcissistic mother in the extreme.) To that, I say good. At least she is thinking about her wrongs (even is she trying to cover them up psychologically, with her 'projection' maneuvers).
She is also still using me as the family 'scapegoat'. (I did some reading about 'scapegoats' and sadly, have to wholeheartedly agree that I was THAT PERSON (eg. scapegoat). She 'scapegoated' me in the brother incident by attacking me behind my back and not able to defend, by insinuating her children must hate her because we made her stay in the 'horrible, ol' hospice ' facility instead of letting her lie in her own filth at home.
She often uses my brother as her 'flying monkey': complaining to him of my transgressions (translated: not catering to her every unreasonable demand...) He repeats to me what she says. I'm not sure why. I really don't think he harbors any malevolence toward me; in fact, he and I are quite close. (Aha, that is why she uses him; she tries to manipulate him into forwarding her guilt and obligation onto me...since I have effectively distanced myself from her physically, verbally and emotionally, but she knows he and I are in contact often.)
Anyway, I wanted to share this. Maybe some of the 'projection', 'scapegoating' and 'flying monkey' discussion will help some of you sort through what you have experienced with narcissistic mothers. I can't say these realizations have helped me; other than to reinforce that I must stay no-contact for my own well being, even if she is dying. Thank you for listening, and for your support here.
Where is the love??
When it comes to our NMs, it's not love unless it's all about them!
When my NM posted my cancer diagnosis on FB, it truly wasn't about me!! It was her wanting sympathy and being the center of attention.
I absolutely get it now! I didn't get it at the time. By the Grace of God, I knew to keep my mouth shut!!
To this day, she has no idea the sh!+ storm she caused. Somehow I think she would get off on it!
So I will never tell her.
Choose your battles very carefully!!
Save your energy for the battles that truly matter to you!
Heck, when my own father died in 1998 and I ran over to her to give her a hug, she turned away from me and told me she couldn’t hug me because she didn’t want to break down, she had a funeral to plan!! I kid you NOT!
I agree with all that has been said about FB. People want to be a star in their own show but often lack judgement and perspective about content.
Lea, I felt so sad when you wrote that you can’t tell your NM anything. It made me realise that is a big, big issue in the lives of people with NMs. I imagine for people with “normal “ mothers, they are able to tell their mothers anything, unburden themselves, seek non-judgemental advice, and in other words receive unconditional love and support, with whatever is going on in their lives. For us, we have no idea what it must be like to have this. There is a gaping hole that can only be partially filled with good intentions from others. That is why we become so self contained and ultra independent - because at times in our lives we will have had to survive on our own without the crucial bedrock of motherly love. There is no peace of mind, no warm embrace, no sanctuary from an NM.
What I learned from therapy and $1000s spent: You vill never be friends vith your mudder. Oh duh.
Thanks for your kind words.
Tonight my mother was getting dressed to go to Brooklyn (from Colorado) to visit Papa (who died when she was 16). Sigh. Sad how far downhill she's gone.
Sorry Xray that you had to go through that! You'll be in my prayers!💜
Lea,
Your NM is a piece of work! You know your NM uses 'Worry" to put the attention on herself...to make it all about her & for a show, which in turn drives you crazy! It is sad that none of us can tell our NM anything because they either uses it to get back at us, make it about themselves, or there is a backlash! We have to watch what we say or they use it as a weapon! It is very sad and I think it is something that people with normal moms just don't get! 😟 Lea, you are a very good daughter. A better daughter than your NM ever deserved. You put up a good fight and did the very best you or anyone could do. Just remember, some battles we have to fight and some battles we have to walk away from to live to fight another day. It is up to you to know which to do. Your a good person and you deserve so much more than what you got!💞
Piper,
You'll be in my prayers!💚
Elaine,
I'm just trying to pass on the knowledge I got from being in therapy my whole adult life. Yes, I have been in and out of therapy since I was 19 yrs old. To bad that none of my counselors figured out that I had "Narcissistic Victom Syndrome!" It could have saved me so much time and pain!💕
My NM tried to take credit for my dad being a Chef. She try telling me that SHE taught my dad how to cook. But here is the problem: when she met my dad he was already a Chef. They met at a restaurant where he worked...he started there at the age of 14 yrs old and he was in his twenties when they met. Of course, I called her out on it and she had nothing to say because she knew I was right.
At least your NM admitted to being jealous of you when you were young. Mind just now admitted to it a week ago. Now she wants a relationship. Of course, I told her it is a little late for that. She is dying and wants to make amends with me. Not happening!! I might have to forgive her, but I don't need a relationship with her or give her comfort. She made her bed and she can lay in it! It may sound cold and heartless and maybe I sound awful, but you do the crime, you do the time!! But she NEVER gave me comfort!
You are more than your NM. You do realize that you are a better person than your NM. When you or any of us do things for people because we simply can and want nothing in return we become better people. We win!
NHWM,
Emotional crap it more exhausting than physical crap (for the lack of a better word)! Emotions take more out of us and is harder to refill/refresh...Can't find the right word, but you know what I am saying. It takes me 3 days to recover from my NM emotional crap. That is my experience!
Yes, she really posted it on Facebook!!
When I got the call from my Dr and heard the words malignancy and cancer, my DH was out playing tennis. I couldn't get him on the phone of course. Distraught, I called my NM (my bad). We had no sooner hung up when she posted it on Facebook.
On his way home, my DH's phone started blowing up from his family wanting to know. Unbelievable!!!
Thank you everyone for the support and well wishes!
You're the best!!😘
It comes across as THEIR curiousity & worry is more important than your issue/health/problem or feelings. Maybe they don't mean it to sound that way... just their low emotional intelligence showing through.
I have set responses ready for non-inner circle people now;
* doing really well
* improving
* in good hands
The details will be none of their business.
I would be very upset about a FB posting. That doesn’t belong on FB!
So sorry that you had to endure that. I swear, some people use FB as a microphone. It’s crazy!
My husband is very private. He did not want his cancer broadcasted on FB.
Your health issues or other personal situations are private and your privacy should be respected.
I can't tell my NM anything. Even though she doesn't have a computer, she drives me nuts with 'worry' and blowing up my phone with 'concern' so that she makes a problem 10000x worse than it was originally. Then she 'can't sleep' and is 'anxiety ridden' so it's not worth it to EVER mention ANYTHING to her about problems we're having.
Praying the biopsy is clean and clear of cancer.
Wow! Great breakfast! Yummy 😋.
It shouldn’t be so very hard to say NO! Good idea to practice it.
Hugs! Hoping everything works out well. Wishing you all the best.
Waiting is tough. Will keep you in my thoughts and prayers.
NO!!!
It's a very definitive word!! There's really no response that can be given!!
I'm gonna work on my NO!! skills!
Mom started calling my phone at about 8:30am. She knew I would be at the hospital!
When she couldn't get me, she started calling my DH. He didn't answer.
She sent a text wanting to know my results. Not "How are you "?
They biopsied the site of original malignantcy and removed 3 more polyps. So the wait for results beings again. It's the sixth time in a year so it's kinda old hat by now.
The only thing I plan on telling Mom is that everything looked fine!
I don't want a repeat of her posting my cancer dx on FB before I had a chance to tell my children!!
Beatty,
I had an awesome breakfast!!
Country skillet with eggs, bacon, sausage, potatoes and peppers.
Ate part of a huckleberry pancake with tons of butter and syrup!! Then got a tummy ache! Lol
Just kidding!!🤗
Oh my gosh! That hummingbird story is priceless!
Lea,
You were always the smart one in your first marriage! It’s a shame that he didn’t learn from you!
Uh yeah, the hummingbird story? UN-FREAKIN-BELIEVABLE that someone could even cook up such nonsense & expect another to consider it valid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You can't make this crap up!
Speaking of bad investments? My ex DH who has an MBA in Finance from Cornell U and considers himself The Leading Authority on Finance (and everything else in the world) has lost MORE money in the stock market, I think, than any other living human. Last I heard, he had invested ALL of his inheritance from his rich mother in MARIJUANA FARMS here in Colo (he's always been a huge pot head) and they all went UNDER! Now he's flat broke! I expect a call from him one of these days asking for some of the divorce money 'he gave me' back. Yeah, no.........not gonna happen. I am the one, btw, who made ALL the $$$$ in our 22 year marriage by investing in good REAL ESTATE! Stupid little me, with NO MBA and no college degree, even. Imagine that? So all the $$$ 'he gave me' in our divorce settlement was money I MADE myself thanks to good property investments.........LOL! And I made ANOTHER one in 2003 after I divorced him by buying the house I'm living in now, which has increased in value tremendously! Plus I wisely invested the money 'he gave me' in the divorce and didn't piss it away in 'pot farms' or other stupidities and lost nothing over the years, even during the crashes. HA!
My mom does have some legit ailments, to be sure - asthma and she's a cancer survivor. But what's more of a weight is the made-up fear and drama, such as telling me everything I try to do is going to run into problems or fail or I'll get sick and die on the way home. Once she told DH he had to change out of a flowered shirt he was wearing or "a hummingbird might attack him." Attack! As though a 2 oz bird could inflict damage on a grown man even if it were to happen. And you can't say anything like "I don't reasonably think that's going to happen" without her getting mad, i.e. you have to agree with her runaway anxiety at all times which is just so draining especially when it's about something you're also anxious over such as a medical appointment.
Admittedly she has created a real problem for herself in that she made poor financial decisions and is going to have to move out of her house, but it's too much house for her to take care of anyway. Another bone I have to pick is that she makes these bad decisions and then presents them to me for cleanup later, i.e. the time she panic sold a bunch of investments she had put in the stock market after it crashed in 2008. Of course I heard about it *after* the fact.... DH and I stayed in the market, things eventually came back up and now we're doing OK.
She seems to have finally stopped emailing/txting me every day at least. I'm still on high alert for her flying monkeys calling to try to guilt me into doing more for her tho - probably one of my cousins or a family friend. Not that the person will care I was so incapacitated with depression I almost checked myself into a facility back in February, tho.... I have ADHD which means I'm around 8x the suicide risk, and I take that seriously. I wish some around me would, too instead of expecting me always to be the resource. Admittedly my dad left me some money when he died in the early 00's which is common knowledge among the family, but they think it's the fortune of Croesus other than a modest sum which DH and I are saving for our retirement. Guess I'll ask them how much they plan to donate to DH's and my retirement the next time one of them asks how I'm going to pay for AL for mother.