Caregiving for a narcissistic mother. Do we do it out of love or out of years of guilt and programming?

Stilldealing,
Your words ring so true. In the last year, I thought what was wrong with me? Why am I so unlovable to this woman I called mom? Then I found this thread and all these wonderful & amazing women. Who's stories sound as if they were my own. In time, I have come to realize that it was never about me...it was about the story...the idea of what my mother thought in her dark twisted head about me. I also came to realize that when my dad passed in 2014 I became an orphan I just didn't know it at the time. I know I am a "Motherless" child and everyday I am reminded of that when I look into my NM eyes and see nothing but selfishness and I look past that and see emptiness. And you are right...no mother's script to live up to or live by! Thank you for reminding me there is freedom in being a "Motherless" child.


Piper,
Why elicit that kind of fear on her child? Because she wants to destroy my life...destroy who I am! I have done so much in my life...things that my NM couldn't nor wouldn't do. I have seen things that she has only read or watch on TV and she knows I am not done. To destroy all that is in me that she wanted to be but couldn't. I still have dreams and a big to do list. She loves to instill fear into me...but I do not live my life in fear and I am not about to start now. I have never and will never harm a hair on her head! She is all talk...I doubt very much if she would have the guts to hurt herself just to blame me. She is truly sick in the head!!

Elaine: CPTSD is Complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. I looked it up myself a couple of weeks ago and the net says:

CPTSD is a serious mental health condition that can take some time to treat, and for many people, it's a lifelong condition. However, a combination of therapy and medication can help you manage your symptoms and significantly improve your quality of life.

The difference between CPTSD and PTSD is that PTSD usually occurs after a single traumatic event, while CPTSD is associated with repeated trauma. Events that can lead to PTSD include a serious accident, a sexual assault, or a traumatic childbirth experience, such as losing a baby. Complex PTSD, however, is specific to severe, repetitive trauma that typically happens in childhood - most often abuse.

https://www.beautyafterbruises.org/what-is-cptsd

What is CPTSD? I never heard of it before.

Piper-I fully understand what you mean about letting the guard down. I never let my guard down. However, I was never lucky enough to just deal with NM twice a year, due to desiring to maintain relationship with (now deceased) father and siblings (whom I very much like). The few times I have let guard slip even a little bit, NM tries to swoop in like a vulture thinking that HER version of status quo is back on the table. (What is it about these narcissist parents where if they think they are getting an inch, they try to bully a mile out of you?) I then have to retreat even further [am doing that now]. As for forgiveness, I will never forgive NM. Even after she is dead. Such people don't deserve forgiveness. I will just endeavor to forget her. Interestingly enough, when I don't see/talk to NM for awhile, I really do forget her. I think it goes back to that old 'motherless child' thing. I really don't view this person as being 'my mother'. She never was, I just feel like this person is just an unpleasant person that I have to deal with for the time being (kind of like a bad neighbor, rotten boss), who when she passes out of my life, will pass out of my mind. (I can hope anyway!) Thanks all, for the support you give others here. So very much appreciated.

Thanks piper, I wish I *could* move Mom to assisted living. But she saved 0 money for retirement and I'm not going to spend down spouse's/my savings for her care - we don't have kids and nobody will be around to help *us* when the time comes. Her house is worth a little bit but my understanding is AL can run up to 10K a month so it wouldn't last long.

When Mom can no longer drive and needs hands on care we'll sell whatever house or condo she lives in and do it at that point, or if she's burned through it we'll look into Medicaid. No way she moves in with me now or ever. I know from experience she'll just follow me even if I move away and there's no way I can stop her, that I know of, from moving wherever she likes unfortunately.

So sorry about your CPTSD. I have that to some extent around my only sibling, my half brother from Mom's first marriage. She let him do whatever he wanted to me, pretty much, when we were kids - mostly psychological torture luckily - and I haven't talked to him in 18 years but I'm not sure what I'd do if I ever had to.

Just another vote for asking your mom to pitch in for the car repair Helen!! That really hurts when one child is the "golden," I know - I see that with my husband's family. He's the invisible child, sadly.

EP: Hard to imagine your NM is only 77 years old. And also hard to imagine wondering if she'll be in a 'good mood' after going to all the trouble of buying and prepping her favorite fried shrimp b'day dinner. You must have a narcissistic mother............as ALL of us wonder the same thing each time we have to deal with them: will they be in a good mood THIS time? Good luck & Godspeed, my friend.

Helen, if you are using your vehicle to cart your mom all over the place then YES, you should ask her to pitch in for car maintenance.

Hi all, catching up on the thread here and seeing all the NMs are still making people's lives miserable. No shock there. Stilldealing, when I was long distance from my mom, which was most of my adult life, I had therapy and I thought I had dealt with my past and put it behind me. I truly did. I was tolerating my bi-yearly visits with her better and believed that I had forgiven her for past abuse. I was actually proud of myself for taking what I felt was the high road.

In a way I wish I hadn't "healed" and put it behind me. Because when it came time to put the big hooks in me for her elder care, I did not have my defenses up. That in part allowed her to manipulate me into this situation. Several months in and I'm seeing dementia, abusive narc behavior, I'm getting triggers left and right, and I'm back in a psychiatrists office. I'll just say this, as much as I liked my old therapist from back in the day, I was never told or warned about CPTSD. It is REAL and it is brutal. The worse part is it is subconscious. It's the reason anxiety goes through the roof and my stomach is in knots when I have to deal with her. My mother a frail 77 year old with dementia- and me a capable 58 year old, and this lady has me reacting like a scared child. THAT is CPTSD.

LeeLady, welcome to the club. You are not alone in your depression. It can feel crippling at times. Please vent her often, it helps and this is a safe space. Others here really get it. As you figure out a way to get out of that house keep coming here for support. I think you already know the first thing you need to do is get out of there.

Shell, your mom and that comment... I just can't. You should have laughed at her. But the idea that she "warned" you is so sickening. Again, why would a mother want to elicit that kind of unfounded irrational fear in her child? It's so abnormal.

Hellbore- these plans your mom has to move close to you made alarm bells go off in my head! Tell her to move to assisted living!! Moving close makes it much easier for them to invade your life and there will be an ever increasing dependence on you- trust me I KNOW! Hellbore I'm not joking.

So today is my mom's 77th birthday. Please send good vibes that I get through birthday girl's big day with half a smile. I got her flowers, and shrimp at the fish market yesterday to make a fried shrimp dinner which is one of her favorites. I got her scheduled for her covid vaccine yesterday so she is happy about that, so hopefully will be in a good mood today.

Is this a common thing, I wonder? My mum has been telling us each time we see her that she sent my brother (the golden child of the two of us) a large cheque for his recent birthday, because he needs a new laptop. We, the ones who drive her everywhere, order her medication and do most of her errands, just get the normal amount she gives to all family members. Why does she keep telling us this?

We just had to get a new battery for our ageing car and I joked cynically to my brother that we ought to send Mum the bill - we would buy a newer, smaller car if we didn't have to accommodate her walking aids and wheelchair. He agreed, but when we told her the car was having problems she switched to selective deafness.

I don't know how I'll survive if my mother lives another 15 years (she's 82.) Xray, we're in the same boat - my mom is also planning a move closer to me so "I can take care of her" (not that she asked ME about this plan of course.) Luckily my immediate neighborhood is too expensive for Mom so she'll probably wind up a few miles away. She also followed me across the country when I moved to get away from her so I pretty much need to accept that I'm not going to be free of the situation til Mom is in her grave.

I definitely hope you have some sibs because I can 100% guarantee that your mom, like mine, plans for you to do all her hands on care. I'd really prefer my own mom to stay in the area she's in now where at least she has some friends who can help take care of her, but there's no way she'll listen of course.

Jodi....my mother also followed me ALL OVER THE COUNTRY until my ex took a job in Manhattan. The cost of living was just too high back east, so they moved to Florida where I FINALLY had a blessed break. The running joke with my relatives was.....where will Lea move next, Sweden? 🤣 I'd considered it. After the break, I had to move them here to Colo (where I wound up) after dad had to stop driving in 2011. He passed in 2015 and here I am, still dealing with mom, at 94, 10 years later, but she's in Memory Care at least.

I hope you get your message across in the letter and that you can stick to your plan. You deserve a life too.

Stilldealing, you are very right. Acceptance of what is is what's best for us. Wishing for something different isn't gonna make it happen. You're really describing the stages of grief a daughter goes thru on her way to accepting the fact she doesn't have a real mother, or has lost her to mental illness

To the recent posters here: all I can say is quit thinking/looking for your NM (narcissistic mother) to change, act normal, love you, whatever...she won't. Just try to accept (as I did 40 years ago), that you were a motherless child then, now, and always will be. It is so very devastating to bring your mind and emotions to that, but it is reality. After getting over the absolute trauma of realizing there is no "Mother" ever for you, try to get on with being that awesome motherless child you can be. You can choose to be broken by the realization, or accept it, and drive on without looking for something that will never be there. In some ways, it can be very freeing. You can quit looking for 'mother's' approval, quit accepting that person's (mother's) criticism, set your own goals b/c, after all, there is no mother dictating what you are or aren't, be the person you know you really are (not the scripted one mother wants you to assume). Think of it a different way: if your mother was just some neighbor's or co-worker's mother, would you let that person dictate who you are and what you do? Would you give up your precious life to cater to their selfish interests? Probably not. The best thing I ever did for myself is just accept I am a "motherless child" and that will never change. Yes, I cried. Desperately and inconsolably. And I got angry, and then focused. And now I am my own person (not what was scripted by someone else's mental illness), and have forged a respectable way in life. But beware, the NM's of the world will always try to sabotage your self awareness, drag you back into their messes and drama, and use you up to meet their ends, with absolutely no remorse. I choose being a 'motherless child'. I can live with that. Just a thought (and caring) for you here.
'

Lea,

I moved from California to Colorado, she followed. I moved from Colorado to Montana, she followed!

My hubby and I have found our perfect place!! We bought the perfect lot and built our perfect home! I refuse to let her chase me off !!

I suspect that my only option is to find a way to tell her exactly how I feel. I also suspect that it's not going to go well.

I think I spoke about it on another post, but I think writing her a letter may be eye opening for her.

I know that I can't talk to her about my feelings on the phone, because she will flat out shut me down!

It's a harsh realization that my 84 year old mother is tougher than I am!! Lol

I know you totally get it!😘

Jodi.....your NM is JEALOUS that you've devoted your time and attention to your aunt so here's the payback. If it wasn't for jealous bones, these women would be Gumby's.
While it's not easy to set boundaries with your NM, what's even harder is having TWO full time jobs on your hands now. One with your aunt and one with your mother! You'll have to pack up and move away to escape.....leaving no forwarding address 🤐

Lea,
Your right it is ludicrous thing to say! In my mind, she falls down the stairs and tells the EMTs that I pushed her or something and you know how people believe these women?! They act so sweet like butter wouldn't melt in their mouths!

My mother said about six months ago that she wouldn't be worried if I moved out because she knows I would be over everyday to cook, clean, yard work, maintenance and etc...I couldn't stop laughing, which made her upset...the h3ll I will...I'll go and get a part-time job! Wink Wink!


Xray,
Lea is right! Your NM is thinking you will take care of her and do all the heavy lifting! If I was you I would tell her "mom if you move into that apartment you know I won't be able to help you. You'll have to hire someone to care for you." Of course, she'll come back with I'll be find or I have you! You should really think on how you are going to handle this.



I have to say, that I am amazed how these women make decisions and have no thought in what effects it has on the people around them!!!🥺

Shell,

You're so right!!

They expect us to clean up the mess they've made for themselves!!

Lea,

I truly believe that her actions are a direct (narcissistic) response to how much time I spend on dealing with my Aunt! It's been almost a full time job!

I need to find away, if only for my own sanity, to tell her exactly why this is a huge mistake. But as I'm sure you know, it's not an easy task!!😘

Shell, such a ludicrous thing for your NM to say! You have NO history of violence with her, why would ANYONE think you had anything to do with an accident she may have? Ridiculous. Out of the mouth of the demented, for sure.

Leelady, welcome to the group! I sure hope you can find a way OUT of the house you're living in SOON and into a new place of your own. You deserve that; you've done way way WAY more than enough for your mother already; I hope you can wrap your mind around that truth.

Jodi........I seriously think you have to decide how much you are going to do or not do for your NM once she moves into this 'apartment' which is such a ridiculous idea. You know she expects you to do it ALL for her, right? Make a plan, or the plan will be that your entire LIFE is devoted to HER. If it were me, I'd let her know right off the bat that I'm available for 2 hours a WEEK, max. No joke. She'd better get a caregiver on board IMMEDIATELY or you're IT g/f. Don't let her see a crack in your solid plan either, or you'll be sunk. She has NO business moving out of her ALF and she has to be told that you DO NOT condone it and have NO time for her, sorry/not sorry mom. Don't tell yourself how 'hard' it is to deal with being firm..............tell yourself how EASY it is to be firm since she's SO OUT OF LINE making a RIDICULOUS decision like this! She is counting on YOU to take care of her, and that's NOT okay. Period.

I am beyond exhausted! For two days all I have heard from my NM is that "she hopes she doesn't have an accident and I don't get blamed! How she could ACCIDENTALLY fall down the stairs and I COULD be blamed! Oh how horrible it would be if THEY blamed me for her getting hurt!" Really!! I feel like she wants to hurt herself and I get blamed! She is threatening to ruin my life. I'm starting to think Satan took up residency in my NM! I told her do whatever your going to do & stop threatening me and of course she played like she didn't know what I was talking about!!! This woman in truly insane!!!


Xray,
I don't think your NM is thinking! It makes no sense for her to move out of a AL to an apartment! That in itself is insane! But if your NM is anything like mine you can't change their minds no matter what you say and do! They refuse to listen to anyone and ALWAYS pay the price for their mistakes and WE get the great job of cleaning up the aftermath! Ugh!!

It is hard for us to be hard a$$ to our mothers because we were conditioned to take care of them...to want/need their love...to protect them...to put their needs before our own...so we do whatever we have to to save them...we were groomed for them. And it sucks!!

All you can do is sit back and wait...wait for her to fall...she'll need help with something & want you to come to her rescue!

My NM is know different and all I ever can do is wait for whatever she does to blow up in her face...it always does!!! They NEVER learn from their mistakes!

Leelady,

Welcome to our thread!!

It's a safe place to simply vent!!

My hope is that we can all get the things off our chests that we can't say to our narcissistic LOs!

Shell,

I wish someone else could convey to my Mom, how bad an idea it is for an 84 year old woman with severe mobility issues to move from ALF into her an apartment by herself!!

Seriously, what is she thinking???

Why is it so incredibly difficult to be a hard a$$ when dealing with the parent that neglected our basic needs as a child?

I doubt even my therapist could truly answer that!! Lol

Xray,
I feel the same way. I can't wrap my head around how a Mother can be so mean & nasty to their kids. How they are uncaring!! It truly is mind blogging!!! I couldn't even dream of treating a total stranger the way my NM treats me. Hugs!!


Leelady,
Isn't it crazy how THEY can make us feel like that little child who wants mommy's love & validation. Sad to say, "we didn't get it then and we won't get it now!"

I think all children who didn't get love from their NM grew up looking for it. We are striving for love, validation, approval from someone...anyone...hopefully as we age we find someone to give us those things and more importantly, that we give it to ourselves!

You are not selfish and YES IT IS TOTALLY UNFAIR!!! You just need to find away to take back your life. Yes, it is easier said than done. You just need to set a date or a time line and start setting things into motion to reach that goal! Remember Roman wasn't build in a day. One baby step at a time...sometimes that is all we can do...sometimes that is all we need to do to get the ball rolling! Hugs!!!

OMG you read my mind this morning! I am struggling to take care of my narcissistic 81 YO mother. She was once a strong, brilliant, a**-kicking woman. She was also too smart, important or busy for most people. After having 3 daughters, she became a physician when I was just 5. She gave her life to medicine & I only got snippets of her after that. Mostly I remember the pain of not doing anything right in her eyes. At least, that’s the way it felt. When you don’t see a person much & they criticize or reject you, those are the lasting memories. She does have a loving side but it’s never predictable. Dr. Jekyll & Mrs. Hyde. Thus began my lifelong pursuit of love & acceptance from people who were in some way unavailable.

As an adult, our relationship had been fractious until a few years ago when God softened my heart. I became more sympathetic, less angry. I went to work for her in 2010, running her medical practice. The only real problem we had was she ran out the door after seeing patients to avoid dealing with the stuff she hated & was deficient in - administration & financial matters. This made my job difficult & very frustrating. You cannot force this woman to do anything. She’ll never know how much I did to protect her. Over the next 8 years I told myself it wouldn’t last much longer. I concluded this was an opportunity from God to help her in spite of our past issues. I was at peace with it.

She was finally forced to retire late 2018 after some health issues. A few weeks later she was diagnosed with a brain aneurysm. She had surgery but lost sight in one eye. She could no longer drive or cook. She had lost her independence virtually overnight. In 2019, we had to sell her home & farm which was massively labor-intensive & required lots of decision-making. Everyone had an opinion on every decision...lots of family fighting & constant stress. No one else wanted to be responsible but had no problem criticizing me when I tried to get things accomplished. I too have always been the caretaker/problem solver/pack mule of my family so the brunt of everything always falls on me. I don’t have children so I'm expected to do more. Adding insult to injury, she had no retirement assets, no will, no POA, no direction on anything. It was a horrible time. I was exhausted in every possible way. I had planned to move ever since I sold my house in 2018 but it kept getting postponed to take care of something new. 

Her dementia had probably begun before the aneurysm surgery but gradually worsened after that, exacerbated by her inactivity & isolation. She had made many poor financial decisions in life & pushed all her friends away. She was alone with limited assets. I tried my best to support her without making her my life. In January 2020 she moved in to my sister’s small house, where I was also living, along with my teenage nephew & 3 pets. We were trying to figure out LT care but options are limited. I started the year well-intentioned, gentle, compassionate. Then COVID hit, & a year later, we are all still here & I feel like I’m losing my mind. I cry more days than not. I’m depressed, anxious and feel completely disabled some days. I pray, meditate, escape in movies & puzzles; but the despair always returns. I am torn between what is best for my mental/physical/spiritual health, and trying to be the good daughter. It feels like I’ve regressed to that 5 year old - wanting her love & approval but being rejected. I don’t know how much more I can take. There are other family issues going on too that make it more complicated. I vacillate between thinking I’m a bad, selfish person, to thinking this is totally unfair. I’ve sacrificed the last 2 years taking care of the person who hurt me so much & never accepted or respected me. I’m spending through my savings to stay “home” but I will have to work again eventually. At 57, that scares me to death. I’m burned out. I can’t see the light at the end of the tunnel. I can’t even imagine it anymore.

Stilldealing,

I have asked her who she is going to hire to move her?

Fortunately (I guess), I had spine surgery recently and I have not been cleared by my Surgeon to lift anything over 10lbs. So she knows that she has to hire a moving company.

Because Mom isn't thinking beyond her intial move, she isn't thinking about who is going to unpack , hang curtains, clean house etc...

The truly sad part is that I know she's not gonna be happy in an apartment either. She's never gonna be happy anywhere!!

I've tried to broach the subject of the "what if" my cancer comes back, or "what if" I am just sick in general? I know her enough to know that she has just dug her heels in and is not going to budge!

Despite the fact she absolutely knows how stressful caring long distance for my Aunt is, she doesn't seem to mind that this move is only going to add to my stress.

Although it doesn't surprise me, it's hard to understand the level of selfishness that narcissism harbors.

I think the hardest part of being the child of a narcissistic parent is wrapping your head around how your parent can be so uncaring?

Thank you for your thoughtful response!!😊

Stilldealing, you are very self aware of your situation with your mother, and so can offer really valuable advice to others on this forum. Jodi, you MUST take care of yourself and make your health your number 1 priority right now, regardless of what your mother is doing.

Xrayjodib-I feel for you. Is it possible for you to refuse to help your mother find an apartment, sort out her stuff, move her stuff, etc (all the things associated with moving)? If so, she might find it too difficult/demanding to do on her own (narcissists are VERY good at getting other people to do their work and solve their problems) and give up the idea. Maybe refuse to even discuss the move? Maybe not verbally refuse, but just not engage? (hmmm, sure, hmmm...) After all, you can get off the phone 'when your breakfast comes', while she is complaining about her trials and tribulations. I have learned not to engage in my mother's "problems" (usually created by her own foolishness), and I am learning not to worry (NM trained anxiety) about the consequences SHE incurs by HER actions. Its not easy, but do-able, and so much more sane for me.

So Mom has given her 60 day notice at her ALF.

The company she hired to find her an apartment has told her that finding an apartment with a walk in shower could be difficult. I told her that I think the walk in shower is paramount, because of her mobility issues. She's not having it!!

I called her this morning and as usual had to listen to her list of complaints.

She actually asked me how I was doing!! I was mid sentence, telling her that I'm having some of my original cancer symptoms again, when she cut me off. "I have to go. My breakfast is here. "

D*** it to Hell!!! I know better than to go down that road!! Lol

Rule # 1) never give a narcissist personal information!!

My bad!!🤐🤐🤐

stilldealing; I often say how unbelievable it is that ONE person can cause SO much chaos, isn't it? :(

Sending you a hug today for all the exhaustion you feel. It's so hard, I know.

Lealonnie-to answer your question about why the facade of 'independence' has been maintained: my mother has guilted-manipulated-shamed-gaslighted-lied-scapegoated-goldenchilded-showtimed my several siblings as well. Unfortunately, they haven't sorted through the consequences of her abnormal parenting and continue to cater to her, even though they know she is abusing their time and generosity, and hate it. She also shamelessly uses more distant family members to do her dirty work if we refuse, and then brags about it. To respond to the question of confronting a NM directly about abusive behavior, I did do so a few years ago. To say it didn't go well, is an understatement. (Narcissist rage is a very real and very bad thing to experience. It is true insane behavior.) I still feel singed by the experience. The hatred, intensity and venom of her rage was shocking even for me. Previously, I had tried to at least focus on whatever good points/characteristics she had, but now, I am only disgusted. On the plus side, I think she realizes she finally crossed the line, and now is very careful what she says to me on the few occasions I speak to her/see her. (An iceberg is warmer than I am.) If she slips even a bit, I reinforce limited contact. It is so exhausting...

I agree with all you've said Elaine, you're right. I've been worried about being left with so many negative memories of my mother before she passes away, so it would be nice to have some good ones. I even told my DD to call grandma; that 'you'll be gobsmacked at the change in her'. Even now though, she still only asks about my son, never my daughter...........thinking that her grandson is 'her son' and makes no mention of my daughter!! Odd, isn't it, how the mind works, even in the throes of dementia? My son has always been idolized by my mother, while my DD has been the second class citizen.

I think you are wise to reread the cards & notes she sent you in happier times, before the mental illness took over completely........b/c that's what it WAS: mental illness. It's easy for ME to say that to YOU, a lot harder for YOU to comprehend it on an emotional level. When our mothers say/do mean things, it cuts to the bone, that's the truth. Thank God you have those vms and cards/notes to remember her by, b/c that's how she'd want you to remember her now that she's gone.

lealonnnie, I do hope that being on Cymbalta will continue to help your mom not be negative and nasty and that you will have nice interactions with her. That is really the main thing right now is to have her be NICE and PLEASANT to you.

I say this to you because as you know my mother got very nasty to me. To the point that 2 days before she had the stroke she told me she didn't love me. That hurt. Now that she is gone, my brain plays back every single negative comment she said to me these last couple of years.

So if being on Cymbalta will take away the nastiness part of her at the end, when the time comes, you will have RECENT memories of her that you can look back on with FOND memories.

For me to get through the negative replays in my head, I will reread cards and notes that she sent me way back in the 1980's and 1990's that were full of love and compassion to me. I also play back voicemail messages that I kept from her this past year. I made sure to only keep the ones where she was kind and talking nicely, and it helps me immensely!!!

Take care lealonnie and big hugs back to you!!

Thanks Elaine! Mom has been on Wellbutrin since 2011 but it's done nothing for her.......literally NOTHING. The change with Cymbalta is staggering, really. To go from beastly to lamb-like is astonishing!! I just feel badly about all these delusions, you know?? Sigh. One thing after another. Hugs to you too dear friend.