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Chris, I totally get it!! Don't ever apologize for venting, it is absolutely necessary!! When they act like how your mother just acted it can get such a rise out of us, it's crazy! BUT- you stood your ground so good for you! Let her pout! That poor me act when you know she can make the phone call is classic manipulation. So is the fit afterwards.

You should take EXTRA long me time today. Chris here is a way to not have your me time spoiled right now-- visualize the upcoming move and how that will give you back so much more control of your life! You will soon be getting YOUR life back, and won't be subject to her narc manipulation and negativity right in your face in your home. Think about how nice that is going to be. You will be able to visit with your son when he comes home without the drama and having to leave the house just to spend time with him.

Hang in there girl. Ignore her pouting. Better days are coming very soon.
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Lea- Yep. Everything you said. The damage these narcs do is extreme.

I never heard of CPTSD until 2 summers ago when I got diagnosed with it. I never considered that I could have PTSD because I've never been in combat or an extreme event like a violent crime or something along those lines, but CPTSD is, well, complex. It was explained to me this is more common in chronic abuse situations like the kind we experienced as children of narcissists. My psychiatrist also talked to me about this and it was a part of why I tried antidepressants. He explained it will help with that subconscious part- like when you get a physical reaction prior to a visit with NM.

I'm seriously considering giving Lexapro another try. My first attempt I think maybe I quit too soon due to side effects, mainly it made me lethargic. Anyway- going to call my doctor and see what he thinks.

Anyone else using meds to help? If so any recommendations?
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Piper, your post was so timely. I've just had my mother make such a fuss about making a simple phone call to the medical centre. She's been going on and on about it for days, trying to rope me in to doing it for her. I've resisted and told her she needs to take responsibility for these things. I went off for my precious daily dose of me time, but she interrupted that to say she couldn't see the phone numbers. I told her I was busy at the time, so she stormed off (no respector of boundaries). I did not chase after her but went back to my me time, now spoilt. Sorry to vent, but I completely understand your frustration and exhaustion at always being the first port of call to fix everything.
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Barb, I do need to have another conversation with my mom about her 100% reliance on me & DH for her socialization, and let her know that I can not fill that entire void for her. I'm going to suggest hiring a companion, in the best possible way I can think of -- like driver/companion, helper. But I'm going to make the main point of the conversation what I can NOT do. I'll try to balance it with what I am willing to do and have been doing, and I'll list those things too because it's still a lot, and she won't be able to come back at me like she's some poor ignored old lady.

I'm also 95% sure I'm going to tell her I took a job working from home that I can do on the internet. I came up with the perfect job that will be believable by her and even my siblings when she tells them. I have no guilt about doing this, because in my mother's mind, and even in my siblings minds I have all the free time in the world FOR HER.

The only thing stopping me from having the conversation now is Covid. I don't want to suggest having people come in until she gets the vaccine. I'm hoping the FL gov will get it's act together on this because so far it's been a disaster. It's still going to be some time before she can get it just due to availability. But I am going to let her know that "I'm applying for a job to do from home, I hope I get it".

I'm glad that your mother, even with dementia was able to eventually reason with you and willingly let you help her with placement. When you explained how the emergency trips were too hard for you and your brother, she didn't want you two to be burdened or at risk. That is how it should be. When you talk about her it is always with respect and love, and the proof that she was a good mother is she raised you to be confident in yourself and your relationship with her.
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Here is something I found. It may be something you already know, but I found it interesting!


10 things not do narcissistic

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/narcissism-demystified/201907/10-things-not-do-narcissists
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Barb.....children of narcissists have been groomed our whole lives to feel responsible for our parent. It's what we were put on the earth to do. We're here to feel their pain, to fix it, to manage it, to listen to the gory details of it, to dwell on it and to question our every decision about it. And to know, without a doubt, that every decision we do make is "wrong". Which is why we seek opinions and guidance from our husband's or other trusted loved ones about how to proceed with decisions about the care and management of these narcs. Because we're always wrong, and we know we will be reminded of that by our parent repeatedly, we need extra confirmation that what we're doing sounds solid. We're always on shaky ground. Nothing is simple or normal for us, as it is for children of non narcissistic mothers, so our dilemmas are different. We don't expect others to fully comprehend the scope of the head games we struggle with or the feeling we're never doing enough to make the parent happy. I thank God for the guidance and patience my DH has with me about dealing with my mother on a daily basis. I think I'd be in the Looney bin a long time already without him. Oftentimes he has another approach to deal with her chronic B.S. that I wouldn't have even thought of because I wasn't indoctrinated to think that way.

It's a tangled web we weave, trying to walk that fine line between doing the right thing for our mothers and keeping our own health and well being a priority at the same time.
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"So, Mom, I think we've come to a crossroads here where you need more help and social time than DH and I are capable of providing you with. I see two choices. One is to move to an environment like a senior apartment with meals and activities and the other is a hired companion/driver who can get you out more. Which do you think we should investigate first?"

Can you have that conversation with her?

Piper, I have been down this road with my mom, although she was not a narcissist. She was furious! How dare I refuse to leave work to attend to her "emergiencies" 3 days running? (Hour drive each way).

Nope, not doing it anymore mom. And neither is brother, because he's gonna give himself a heart attack over this stuff. Nope, not entertaining these emergencies any longer. You need more assistance than even a loving family is set up to give.

She got over her anger and we shopped for communities. The key was that I didn't feel that she was in anyvway my responsibility. How could my MOTHER be MY responsibility?
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"What concerms me is the fact that you are looking for everyone's approval: hers in general and DH's in how you handle her.

Do you ever say "this is what I'm going to do" because it is the right thing?"

Actually Barb I don't think I am looking for anyone's approval. I don't care all that much about what my mom thinks of me, and with DH I consult with him because I'm looking for guidance and because he is also in this situation with me.

And trying to do the right thing is what has driven this entire situation. Moving her here was me trying to do the right thing. I wasn't doing it for approval. I believed that she needed help.

Clearly I made a mistake and it backfired big time, and things need to change, but washing my hands of my mother after I've moved her here and she is legit ill doesn't feel like the right thing to do.

Trying to manage things until she is ready for memory care seems like the right thing to do. I don't like it, but I have to take responsibility for the fact that I moved her here. My mistake and now it's mine to deal with until memory care.
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Shell,

Have you had this discussion with your Mom?

Since she still has her faculties, she needs to have her wishes in writing!

Sounds as though she will need the proceeds from her home to live on. And your brother will have to suck it!

I understand how painful this is for you! Removing my Aunt from her home of 43 years was the hardest thing I have ever had to do!! It's been 15 months and I am still feeling sick over it, however, in her case, it was the only decent thing to do.

Although she is safe, sound and relatively happy, it gives me little solace. But I know it's what was best for this sweet little woman that I adore!

I know when the time is right, you'll find a way to do what's best for your Mom!!

God bless!!
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Thank you Xray. However, my mother doesn't have any money and neither do I. My sig-other & I live with her. We are saving our money to buy a house, so that I can sell the family home and use that money for a AL. There are no Medicaid ALs in our area and as long as she owns a home and is seen as fit (mentally & physically complete) then she won't qualify for Medicaid!

Plus, she refuses to move. I figure when the time comes when I am able to move out then she will have to move because she will be afraid of my brother moving in with her! Long story short, my brother believes that this house is his. He is entitled to it...not my mother...not me...but him! His name is not on the deed and he never paid one bill on this house and yet, he really believes that it is his house. He has told me numerous times that when my mother dies that he is kicking my SO and me out not realizing that he has no legal grounds. He has also told me that I can not sell the house without his permission and I would have to give him half of the money made from the sale. Like I would ever ask him to sell My Parents house, little long give him any money from the sale. He is a narcissist...just like my NM!!! They are two peas in a pod!!!
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Good point Barb ,

I have used this quote often, but I see now how it applies to my NM as well.
"What you except, you teach. "

Shell & EP,

There are "Age in place " facilities. My Aunt started in Assisted living(like an apartment with helpful staff) and then we had to move her into memory care which is simply a different wing.
The next step will be hospice in the 3rd wing.
The real trick is convincing them to go!
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EP, I'm not sure that what I'm going to say here is useful or kind, but it is true.

Your mother has the "right" to fail. Withdrawing your support from her, as in going back to work, taking a long trip or somesuch, will either force a readjustment in her causual reliance on you or will cause something like a fall.

What concerms me is the fact that you are looking for everyone's approval: hers in general and DH's in how you handle her.

Do you ever say "this is what I'm going to do" because it is the right thing?
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Piper,
I know what you mean! My NM clearly cannot live alone due to her health and dementia, but at the same point, she is not sick enough for a NH and she is not gone enough for a MC. It is like living in "NO MAN'S LAND!" It sucks!!

Good for you. I have found power in taking my power back. Not having power over my NM, but having power within myself. If that makes sense?!...God please don't let me lose my power!
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Good for you, Piper! Do what you need to do to retain sanity.
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Yeah, I'm going to start using therapeutic lies to get breaks. I've been thinking about the need for boundaries and what that means when you have an elderly narc parent that develops dementia. It's a much bigger challenge than just dealing with a narc parent that you can walk away from, who doesn't need legit help.

My mom has an obsession with the weather and gets weirdly depressed if it's not perfect. She's always been that way, but now it's worse because she really is stuck inside, isolated and declining. She texted me asking me to come over "since DH is watching football". He wasn't, she had her days mixed up. I was making dinner and I suddenly felt sorry for her. I knew she liked what I was making so I called her and invited her down, and she came.

She was extra out of sorts. TBH she seemed high on her opiates to me, because she was extra chatty but her thoughts weren't flowing as well as normal (which is bad to begin with). She stayed a couple hours. After she left I spent the rest of the night thinking- my biggest problem right now is I can't just leave her alone.

She has legit issues, and high risk behavior that require daily monitoring of some kind. I'm literally stuck right now in that grey area where she is NOT independent by any means but not yet incompetent so I can not place her in memory care. She would never go willingly.

She is too far gone for things like joining a gym (silver sneakers) or the local senior center where people do not have dementia. I know that isolation is also very unhealthy. This remains an ongoing challenge.
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EP,

Keep working on setting boundaries! Even one!

Telling them NO is soooooo hard.

As Lea said, you will get push back and grief, but stand your ground!

How do you eat an elephant??
ONE BITE AT A TIME!!😘
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EP: Listen, your DH tends to see things in black & white. We live in the gray areas with our NMs. We have to be creative in order to prevent them from usurping our LIVES. DH doesn't have to 'agree' with your approach to 'getting a job'........it just has to work for YOU. Since he's always been so supportive to you, he'll agree to go along with it, esp when he sees that it brings you RELIEF from the constant barrage of sh*t from NM. You deserve a break today, and that's not just a song from McDonalds. We have to go to extremes sometimes in order to allow ourselves to LIVE a life w/o being expected to be the entertainment committee to these women.

They don't comprehend the 'word no' like normal people do. They push and prod and poke and hound until we're out of our MINDS with grief. So that's why the lies have to come into play. To save our own sanity! We are allowed to do that. Regardless of what anyone thinks about it.

If I've learned nothing else over the decades, I've learned SURVIVAL TECHNIQUES!

As far as the 'hired companion' goes, who cares if it works out or not? If NM gets lonely enough and cannot rely on your OR on DH for her entertainment, THEN she will start considering other alternatives. Up until now, she hasn't had to. So why should she? NMs will suck their family members dry until there's nothing left, THEN and only THEN will they move on to their next victim.

You can offer her a list (on paper) of things she can join or sign up for to amuse herself. Silver Sneakers should be back up & running soon, senior centers, daycare type places (I could just hear the pushback now!). Is she computer literate? Have her sign up for online dating with Ourtime.com!!!!!!!!! That could potentially keep her occupied for HOURS every day! You can't suggest normal things like needlework or reading.........NMs need to feel like they're the center of ATTENTION. What better than a DATING site where she gets messages from MEN! Could open a can of worms, but hey, you'll cross that bridge when you get to it!!!
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Lea, I’m seriously considering the job approach. I’ve mentioned this in the past and DH thought it was a bad idea and that I should just say no if I don’t want to see her. See, that’s where he has a blind spot. It’s not really possible for him to understand the CPTSD I have from her, and how normal communications are extremely difficult if not impossible.

I’m going to talk to him about it again though because he’s been aware that I’m struggling again. BTW, he also thinks the hired companion will never happen “because she doesn’t want it”, he sees her as antisocial- which he relates to. And in part he is right, she has become antisocial. But as I remind him she is not an Aspie, she doesn’t want to be left alone to do her own thing. I’m gonna have to figure this out.

Also getting her moved away from my front door is what keeps me up at 2AM, but because of the early bad decisions on my part when this started I can’t do anything now. I’m stuck until a doctor declares her incompetent.

Thank you for letting me vent, it really helps to blow off steam.
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Stay in therapy, make your goal freedom. There are healthier ways to learn how to love yourself. If you don’t change....nothing changes. You can do this dear one, yes you can!!
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EP: Dh calls what your mom did "throwing a grenade into your day".........it's what they DO.

You can't have a 'rational' discussion with the woman, she won't allow it. It's all about HER and what you aren't doing FOR her and blah blah. Which is why I strongly suggest you tell her you've gotten a JOB that goes from 9-5 pm daily (or whatever) and you can say you work from home if you'd like to, but that you CANNOT BE BOTHERED OR DISTURBED AT ALL during that time period. Therefore mother, let's get a paid companion for YOU so you don't have to be all alone like a dawg while I'm WORKING. You can arrange your 'work schedule' any way you'd like to accommodate YOU and YOUR needs, as long as the woman is trying her hardest to usurp YOUR life. Until and unless you can remove her from your property *which would be my #1 goal in life* then you HAVE to come up with some kind of SCHEDULE for yourself that she CANNOT disturb. Period.
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I didn't see my mom yesterday, but she still managed to interject her BS into the day. This is passive aggressive stuff because she doesn't like being "ignored" which is how she sees it if she isn't part of our DAILY plans.

I sent her a text with a video clip of the fireworks I took late NYE, when she was already home sleeping. I did this so I could check on her, and then forget about things the rest of the day. Her response was that the fireworks in PA are better than here. Whatever. Fine. I did my check in, she didn't fall, she's okay (for her). I didn't feel the need to text back.

Then an hour later she texts DH and tells him she wants to go to the grocery store with him. WTH? First of all I KNOW she doesn't need anything. Her fridge has tons of food, she eats here constantly, and we take her shopping constantly. More than she needs. It's like an outing now. He put her off until Monday, and she said "Fine".

I already invited her over for Football and food tomorrow, so I'm wondering what she will pull to get an invite for today too. And since I got a day "off" yesterday she will be expecting something today. I'm going to resist. I'm in no mood for her today.

I really need to have the hired companion talk with her, but not sure what to say because I know she will instantly get mad and accuse me of trying to push her off on other people. Well.... yeah I kind of do. So how do I respond? The truthful response of I need it for ME so I can have a little of my own life, separate from you, is not a rejection of you -- will never be understood or cared about with her.
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Lea,
I agree with you a 100%. My NM had to keep her good mother imagine. When we first started talking about NM, I came to realize that my NM was so wonderful all the times I was in & out of the hospital. My mother would be loving and attendive in front of the Drs and nurses, but as soon as we got home, I was on my own again!

I think the other reason my mother was nice to me when the older boy (K) was around because he was really smart, protective of me, and he would have told my dad. K and my dad were close, plus, my mother would never want K to think bad about her. To this day, he thinks the world of her and I just let him!


MMasonST, I am very sorry that you had to go through all that abuse--it really sucks!! Good for you for being strong enough and brave enough to walk away! Now it's time for you to take care of you!

Piper,
I hope that you do something extra nice for yourself today...you deserve it! Hugs!!!
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Lea,

No way will I take that bet!! Lol

You're spot on!!😂
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MMasonSt,

You're in good company here!!

The fact that you were able to go No Contact shows incredible strength!! It's an extremely difficult thing to do!

I look forward to seeing your insight in the future. I imagine that you have a lot experience to share!

Happy New Year!
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Chris,

Praying that her trial visit goes well!!

EP,

I totally understand! I think I have become hypersensitive to everything Mom says so I have started to shut it out. Kinda like the "Charlie Brown " adults.
Wah, wah, wa wah. Lol

Hang in there both of you!!
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Jodi......OMG.....my mother would have done THE EXACT SAME THING, I can hear it now. Exaggerated carrying on about a heavy desk or chest of drawers purposely blockading her door and blah blah, total hysterics over NOTHING.....the typical M.O. for attention and a JUSTIFIED reason to go postal on an innocent caregiver! And here we are, embarrassed over their disgusting behavior, trying to smooth things over with flowers and band aids. Last time my pulled a stunt like this, I stepped back and told them THE WOMAN IS A NARCISSIST AND HAS JUST MANAGED TO FOOL YOU ALL THIS TIME.....NOW SEE THE TRUTH OF WHAT I HAVE TO DEAL WITH. They were shocked, the CG was weeping and went to the ED to ask to be switched to another area away from my mother. I'm done covering up for her sh*t. I will no longer play that game and keep her little secrets. I have no doubt your mother will now pull out every trick in the book to wheedle her way OUT of the 2 week quarantine......everything from cajoling to cussing. Betcha $100.

Piper.....make yourself much less available to your mother or she'll usurp your entire LIFE and still complain it's Not Enough. Tell her you took a job from 9-5pm or whatever and can't be disturbed during those hours. It's what I've done for years. 🤣

MMasonSt......glad you're here and sorry you're here, both at the same time.

Shell...remember the Secrets. NMs need to show the world How Wonderful they are so the ugliness towards you is done privately, never in front of the Strangers. Helps with Gaslighting, too, just in case you ever try to Divulge A Secret. Then she can cry, Whaaaaat Me? I Am The Perfect Mother Just Ask These Boys I've Taken In Out Of The Goodness of my Heart, My Daughter Is A Dirty Liar.
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MMasonSt, your family experiences sound bad. Glad to read that you've identified the abuse for what it is, and that you have taken the necessary steps to start rebuilding your life. You have every right to have a life free of such abuse.
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MMason,

Welcome to the club nobody wants to be in! But good for you for getting out.

"I do have my health and can rebuild"..... THIS is the main thing. You've been through an abusive situation and you need time to heal. Make yourself the number one priority.

And along the way, come here for support, to vent, whatever you need. Many of us "get it" and you are not alone.
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My only sibling is an older brother. I have lifelong experience being bullied by him and bpd mom. Dad always turned a blind eye to it and gaslighted me to stop my tears and complaints.

I was manipulated to be caregiver and suffered greatly as a result. They claimed to have no plan for their future care.

Received vicious verbal abuse from mom each time I left to go home or even go get coffee for 10 minutes. My complaints and tears were ignored by dad and brother.

I am on permanent no contact. Am fed up dealing with liars and manipulators. My life is in shambles thanks to them. I do have my health and can rebuild.

Am very grateful to read the threads here!
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Jodi, I too am sorry to read about the hysterics and agree with everything Chris said, it's all so draining dealing with these types. It was nice of you to get flowers for the director, I'm sure it did brighten her day.

At least the visit was okay. Whew.

My mom was here yesterday again and wanted to stay extra long. I'm really getting sick of being around her so much! She is just not pleasant to be around. Little things are starting to set me off again. I made a NYE dinner (pork, etc) and she wanted to know what we were having today too! I told her nothing because I am laying low and cleaning decorations, and she gave me a nasty pout look! Yesterday was the 3rd holiday dinner I've made and included her, I need a break! Plus other dinners in between! My husband was standing behind her and motioned to me with his hands to "calm down".

Once again I am starting to freak out that she has NO life of her own! I do not want to be her only source of socialization! I need to talk to her about hiring a companion once a week as soon as we can do it safely with covid, and I know it will go over like a lead balloon. I don't even know how to start the conversation. Huge sigh.

I hope I'm not the only one getting a break today. I hope you ladies are too.
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