I've posted before about in-law care-giving. Aged mother in law, lives in same town.
We are at the tail end of a visit from sister in law from several states away. Sister in law has been here for 3 weeks caring for her mother. A much welcome respite.
It had been discussed, prior to her arrival here on the scene, she would be talking it over with her mother, to try and get her mom to come up to her home, for a stay of maybe a few months.
This, in my opinion, is absolutely essential, as I am expecting twin grand-children, due in about 1 month (if they don't come sooner, as is the case a lot of times with multiples pregnancies). The expectant mother also lives locally here, and has a 4 year old daughter. I will be on that front, helping .. as much as is needed. And not on the front with mother in law and care-giving, and have made that as obvious and apparent as I know how to make it. It would be great if mother in law would agree to go to her daughter's home (several states away) for a period of a few months .. and allow me the latitude to put my energies where I want them to be, on my daughter who will have had a c-section .. and my grand-daughter (4 years old) and new twin babies.
Nothing doing. Mother in law has dug in her heels, and will not hear of it, going to stay with her daughter for any period of time.
What are her reasons?
In mother in law's defense ... her daughter ... I don't even know how to describe it. I will say that when her daughter comes here to visit, she all but breathes for her mother and if she could find a way to do that, she'd do that too. She is the most nervous nelly, never sit down - ever ... worry wart, do everything, all the time .. person that I've ever encountered.
A great example, as I was taking her to the airport yesterday for her departure, . I reached into the fridge to grab myself a bottled water and shut the fridge and turned to walk away, as I've done for all of my 50 plus years living on this earth .. and she said to me, "Oh make sure that fridge shut". WTH???? Like I don't know how to shut a fridge? That's just a small, very small slice of what she is ... how she is.
She is so very hyper-vigilant, seeing to every minute details down to it's finest most minuscule point, fine tooth comb, questioning every point along the way, "should we do thus and so, but maybe if we do thus and so, then such and such will happen, maybe we should do it thus and so .. but then so and so might happen, maybe we shouldn't do thus and so, but do "x" "y" and "z" instead, but if we don't do it that way then ..........", on and on and on and on it goes. And usually in hyper warp speed, as to every single friggin thing.
If her mother moans .. "what's wrong mother?, why did you moan, are you alright?".
Mother: "Yes, I'm fine, I was just sighing out loud".
Sister: "Why did you sigh? Are you hurting, are you sure you're alright, why are you sighing what's the matter?"
Mother: "For God's sake __________________, I was just sighing, .. calm down, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, .. because if something is wrong you need to tell me".
Mother: "Everything is fine, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, we did a lot yesterday, did we do too much, maybe we shouldn't of gone to two doctors in one day .. was that too much for you, are you too tired now, maybe we need to move those other doctor appointments so we won't have two in one day, is that too much for you, for one day .. is that why you were sighing .. what's wrong, are you sure you're alright".
Hopefully that kinda gives a little bit of a snapshot of what goes on when sister is in the ring directing things.
So in mother in law's defense.. I do get it, why she wouldn't be chomping at the bit to go to her daughter's home.
BUT ....
The only experience she has with her daughter, in the last years as mother in law has aged and been unable to go anywhere much, has been the daughter coming here, periodically, for periods of about 3 weeks at a stretch. When her daughter comes here, she moves heaven and earth for her mother and then some, and doesn't sit down, doesn't stop .. the WHOLE ENTIRE TIME.
Is there a possibility maybe (as I said to mother in law, when she expressed that isn't happening - talking to me - her going to her daughters .. ever) .. could it be possible that maybe if you would go to where she lives .. she'd be more busy managing her own life in that setting than your's and she would get out of your backside .. and not be as hyper-drive-vigilant as you experience in her, when she's here, could that be possible.
The daughter is retired, lives several states away. Does come here, generally, every few months .. and stays for a period of about 3 weeks at a stretch. I wish I could make a list of everything the daughter did when here this last time, but it would take up the whole character allotment:
Well... let me take a wee step back...they may talk but nothing will be done.
SIL will wait for Spring, or she will come up with another reason why her mother can’t move closer to her.
Keep us updated!
Poor old SIL probably isn't having any fun, either.
Well, see how it goes, eh? No skin off your nose if they don't make any progress, but who knows. They might.
Who wants to take bets the visit here will come and go and no earnest discussion between DH and his sister on their mother's future and well being?
I know if I were a betting person, I'd wager there will be no discussion.
I won't be prompting any of it. That's up to them.
Just thought I'd drop in and mention it.
This morning, talking to DH .. plans are to go pick her up at the airport, she and her husband .. (both DH and myself) then grab a pizza to go, and take her to their mom's and have dinner. I said to him, *mocking* .. a song that they make fun of him, . when he was a little boy .. sung to the tune of twinkle twinkle little star, .. "Summer aint fun" .. this because he used to say that during summer break .. when it was rainy or he otherwise couldn't go out and play (as a little boy). So I sang that same tune to him this morning, in reference to his sister coming, and the fact that she's no fun anymore .. she used to be .. but not anymore. She comes here, hops on the hamster wheel and runs at full out speed, without ceasing .. for the entire duration, each time she comes.
Explaining to him the countless times I've asked that she and her DH join us .. let's go grab a bite out somewhere, .. let's all go see a movie. Answer always, "I don't feel right leaving mother .. and she can't go". (FWIW ... the mother is shoving her out the door, "GO ... just cuz I can't go, doesn't mean you can't, GO).
Just chit chatting with DH this morning, "your sister is no fun anymore, like that song they used to sing to you .. *summer aint fun* .. "your sister aint fun* ... she used to be, but not anymore, .. can't ever get her to get out from the chore land .. and go smell the roses, she comes here and she doesn't stop the WHOLE time".
He said the following: "THIS TIME it's gonna be ME .. and I'm gonna put the word to her, .. she is GOING TO THIS TIME .. we are GOING TO SIT DOWN AND TALK! .... talk about mother and her situation .. and she's gonna MAKE THE TIME to sit down and talk to me, the one who is here .. and NOT retired like she is".
I responded, "what is it you think you're going to accomplish?".
He said: "She doesn't need to be out there alone, she's so lonely and frail .. she doesn't need to be living alone, .. she needs to not live alone anymore".
I said to him: "Maybe you have more info than I've been made aware of .. last I heard that's what she wants .. to be left in her home ... living alone".
He said in response: "Sister is going to sit down and make the damn time to talk to ME .. ".
Uhm .. okay.
Not betting on it.
It's such a blessing that I am able to be of help to her, and that's not lost on me. I didn't have that luxury when mine were little. If we were all sick, me included, .. we just had to soldier on through.
I count my blessings that I am able to help and that the help is wanted and appreciated.
Today .. I went to our ladies luncheon at church and then ran in the door and paid some bills, and am throwing dinner together for all of us. The 4 yo has her first little school program (xmas songs, sung by the preschool class) this evening. So I'll fix dinner so the mommy doesn't have that on her ck-list to do. And we'll all convoy over to the little pre-school for the xmas program.
These are the things that I was likely to have upended in my previous life .. by MIL's various maladies. No longer is that the case. I might've agreed to take MIl to a doc appointment on said date, only to then have another 3 or 4 stops added to it, .. and then had any wish for what I want to do with my day, negated by need on that end.
Hopefully all can stay well, at least for a couple of weeks on DD's end, if not, I'll be in the mix of it. I have a nice big fat head cold to thank for my efforts at the moment, .. shared by DD's family. But .. so be it. It's not terminal. :)
We all make our choices.
MIL, to remain in her home, really .. in an unsafe setting for her compromised state.
I didn't allow myself, for a long time, the latitude to back away from it all. It was all very much self imposed. Well, that and directed from afar as to "need", "need and more need".
It was only as the need began increasing to the point my life was routinely upended and any plans I had on the radar .. that was when I began to sit up and take notice things aren't as they should be.
MIL did take a fall at some unknown point (probably falls more than we are aware of). Had a bad scrape on her arm when I last saw her. Attributed it to the fall, .. a fall we knew of .. one where she fell into and caught herself on the shower door in her master bath. That one we were aware of. I seriously doubt that specific fall was what caused the deep scrape on her arm. The fall we'd been aware of had been some time back. This looked like a newer wound. I suspect she probably falls more than we're all aware .. and .. I guess that too, .. something we have to live with. She doesn't want it addressed, . .and so either lies or covers it up .. and/or doesn't address it.
She has done remarkably better these last several months, than had been the case in the months leading up to my departure from the scene. Not sure how that can be .. but it doesn't seem there have been anymore stomach upsets (something was routinely occurring with her diverticulitis and eating the wrong things), .. she hasn't had anymore, not that I'm aware of, .. bouts of cellulitis due to the severe edema, .. something that was also occurring routinely previously.
I don't know if the above has occurred and I'm unaware .. and maybe the housekeeper or a neighbor .. who knows .. is pressed into service to haul MIL hither and yon for various ailments. Or whether she is in fact, doing better these last several months as to the above.
Either way, it works for me. As long as it's not me in the roads every day, as had been the case .. a lot of days .. in service to the problem, while her kids continue on with their pursuits of what they wish to do with their time.
We all make our choices. I've made mine and I'm fine with it.
I think that your DH keeps wishing that *someone* would make his mother's life less lonely. If he's not going by to visit regularly, but makes time to hunt/church/visit parishioners? then MIL is not the priority that he laments. I told my husband that he makes time for what he really wants to do, and not to blame me if he feels that his parents are not tended to. Your stance on the Yellow Bedroom was a surprise after your mother's visits, I am sure, despite the difference in caregiving levels. If your husband is not regularly tending to needs, he doesn't know what is involved. And you were the Mom/Nurse etc. in the past. And your SIL does what looks good for the moment; not what will resolve the situation. Like people who plaster over mildew instead of replacing the sheetrock, the problem is covered over, not fixed. But oh well...
Have a good holiday. There may be conversation; maybe not. All we can do is draw our boundaries and help where it is possible.
I hope it's not too bad for your BIL, since he's coming too. It can't be something to look forward to for him, to visit his MIL who is so nasty to him.
It tore you apart emotionally when you realized MIL’s kids were really not that engaged in MIL’s care. I would’ve felt the same way- surprised, disappointed and angry.
But with time you’ve been strong enough to stick to your convictions and priorities that YOU chose, not those dumped on you.
I am happy to hear you are at peace with yourself because IMO you should know that you certainly did fulfill responsibilities for your MIL- either when her kids chose to delegate them to you or just out of the goodness of your heart, which is where most of your actions taking care of MIL came & still come from.
It’s all good. Time for MIL’s kids to put on their big kid’s clothes and make hard decisions to assure their mother’s safety & future.
It will be interesting to see what happens this Holiday season- I have my doubts her kids will actually DO anything except talk. I hope that’s not the case. So far they’ve dodged “the event” we all know that forces our hands as caregivers, which is a good thing.
They can’t push that envelope much further.
In the meantime I am sure your daughter is exhausted with caring for three sick kids. Daycare opens a whole new can of worms as far as illnesses. I will bet it makes you feel so good to take care of the twins and send their mom, your DD, to bed. Stuffy noses and all! Pretty cozy family environment- would make me feel happy to help. Now you are providing help to someone that has a true need.
We are rooting for you Dorker. Have a great day!
Easy for me to say sitting on this side of health and well being. I might feel differently if I sat on the other side of that line. But it's a conversation that is badly needed in healthcare and this country.
This AC board has been a true Godsend and a lifeline to someone stuck in too much muck and mire of it all, for far too long. Giving me permission to step back and look at things more objectively. Where I have indeed, come away from it all, resolute to not be the step n fetch I once as in it all, .. and no longer taking up and bearing the torch her own offspring refuse to carry.
A little story that kinda defines some things in it all.
MIL .. years and years ago, lost her mother within 1 month of an esophageal cancer dx. Her father, however, continued to live for a number of years beyond that point. Her father suffered from some heart disease and other maladies. At some point, .. it was thought, it was no longer safe for him to live alone. At that point, a decision was made he would be jocked for 3 month stints, between MIL's home and her sister's home (3 hours away).
I don't know, I was a young mom of toddlers in those days and far removed from the minutia of all that was that decision making of that process. I don't know what kinda persuading had to be done, to convince her father of this new approach, if any.
The point in the above is this. While I am certain it was upending to her world, to have to house and care for her father under her roof, for 3 month stints at the time. She also had the latitude to realize another 3 months, his care would not be her responsibility. She was free within that 3 month period to do as she pleases with what works for her, such as be a g'ma to her young g'children. And she was a good one, very good one.
Having been on the scene and part of this family for over 4 years at this point. I remember the above, very well.
I was not, at one time, being given that same latitude.
Now, no one ever forced me, to do the things I did. I did things for MIL because I love and care for her and I'm a compassionate human. But the need was growing ever increasingly larger and larger.
I was balking .. to no avail. It was no stretch to say there were times I was pressed into service in whatever the need may be, daily. All while her daughter, .. 1K miles away continues her life unabated, .. sans the visits timed out about every 4 months or so. Her son, .. firm sideline sitter in it all.
MIL in her absolute staunch refusal, at that time, .. to allow any 3rd party assistance, .. it would fall upon me, that's how it looked in real time, on the ground here. Oh you'd say to her, .. we need to involve others/outsiders here, . it's getting to be too much. SIL would return to her home with the notion that MIL would push .. "I'll be fine, now I'll manage, don't you guys go calling neighbors, or trying to get someone else in all this, I don't want that, I'll be fine". But in the end, .. once again, I was getting phone calls from 1K miles away, 'can you help mother with ______________________and ________________ and if you don't mind, .. if you could also take her tomorrow to _______________ and while you're out, pick up ________________".
On and on this would go, .. and if there was any calamity in it all, such as onset of illness, then throw all plans for any life out the door.
I would remind her daughter, 1K miles away, 'she said she'd be fine, she'd manage, .. why do I need to rush to her service?". Oh a myriad of reasons/excuses and once again, I was pressed into service, and yes, at times upending plans I made on my own .. for things I wish to do, my own responsibilities and/or enjoyments in life.
Believe me, the whole thing wasn't lost on me. MIL at one time, had the care and responsibility of her aging father, and had to make concession there. But .. there was a shared burden there. She also was free, .. at that time in her life ... to relinquish that responsibility for a 3 month stint at at time. I was not being given that latitude. That wasn't lost on me, at all. Her staunch refusal (at least at that time) to entertain any notion of any outside, 3rd party help and it routinely falling back into my lap.
At the time this was all coming to a head for me emotionally speaking, . I only had one lone single g'child, two on the way (twins). A daughter that badly needed me, .. as she was essentially put on "rest" at home.
I haven't regretted, stepping back, my daughter has needed me, and my g'children and I adore them .. and I love doing for them, and helping. I realize, all too readily, there is a very small window of time that the g'kids find g'ma at all amusing and fun to be around. All too soon, they grow up and have friends/interests of their own, and g'ma is old news .. at least for a while, til they grow up some.
I want the latitude to not have my world upended by someone who isn't my responsibility in the end, .. she is .. in the end .. not my parent.
Since the time I backed out of all this, my daughter had the twins back in June. They did come stay here for a period of about 3 weeks .. (in transition/moving at the time). And my help was hands-on daily/nightly and much appreciated and needed.
They soon enough, moved on into their own home. Even still, for a period of a few weeks, I was there on site, .. as needed, hands on.
UNTIL ...
MIL had some calamity and I felt compelled to step in, in a larger way than I'd done in the previous few months, which then took me away from helping my daughter and her new babies.
This culminated in my daughter, exhausted and having an emotional meltdown of sorts .. (post partum) perhaps. I was never so sorry for having abandoned the place I wanted to be, where I was truly needed and where I FEEL STRONGLY my responsibility was, in my daughter and my g'children. It was a stark reminder, that I need to put my focus where it needs to be, on my flesh and blood daughter and her children.
And I haven't looked back since.
In more recent times, .. their daughter (the 4 yo) started pre school for the first time, having been a stay at home kid prior to that. Sickness .. has run rampant thru their household, almost since. I guess it takes a while to build up immunity.
Several weeks back, my daughter showed up here, in the morning, two babies in tow and basically handed me both babies and she went and crawled in one of my beds, and went to sleep, suffering from a horrible stomach bug. I took over, for her, and it's what I was more than happy to do.
Since that time, for their family, it has been one thing after another. Stomach bugs, ear infections, upper respiratory infections, .. you name it, .. running rampant thru their family.
I have been available and have helped out. As recent as a week or so ago, daughter having suffered sleep deprivation for several days .. two babies that won't eat their bottles, they can't breathe, .. all clogged up .. and she herself sick with the same ailment .. unable to rest. I took over for her, and sent her to bed. This has gone on a lot in recent weeks/months. Tis the season I suppose.
My daughter, I guess it would be different if she wasn't grateful .. she is .. so very grateful that she has me at her elbow to help in times like above and I'm so glad to do it.
Were I still on the front with MIL and all that is her care and well being, there is no way I could be on the front helping with my g'kids. And I would've grown more and more resentful that this, which is not mine to heap upon myself .. is yet mine to do.
It's a little different in this situation than was the case with her own father (MIl's father). She and her sister who shared the care of their father, .... they lived 3 hours apart. It was a workable solution. Here .. that isn't the case, her daughter lives 1K miles away. It would be a little too cumbersome to jockey MIL back and forth over the spanse of 1K miles.
But .. she could also entertain the notion of AL .. and become someone we can "enjoy" rather than a "responsibility". She hasn't.
I don't mean to sound cruel and uncaring, because that isn't where I stand in it all. But .. to me .. the refusal to do anything other than what the status quo has been, .. which is how things remain ... doesn't then mean that I have to forfeit my own life/interests in favor her well being. If it's okay for her kids .. my husband and his sister that she live in this compromised state of being .. and lonely and frail .. and alone .. then I will have to be fine with it too. And I think it took me a long time, .. but I do think I'm more wrapped around that concept now than I was when I first landed here.
I am now, for the most part, absent in MIL's life. I don't, as I used to, by any stretch, talk to her routinely .. nor her daughter .. beckoning me into service. I get to, do what I want to do, with my day .. which is attend to things that are my responsibility to attend to, .. and enjoy my church functions/activities .. and my g'children and my little p/t do nothing job.
I too believe that it's been incredibly frustrating and difficult to Dorker to have had to step back, just to make a point, to get her MIL the proper care that she needs, while her MIL's daughter and SON dance around the obvious, all in the name of getting them to take notice and make some really difficult decisions, and to convince their MOM it's all in the way of safety and concern, plus a better quality of life, and socialization.
I do so hope that this Christmas conversation does indeed happen, and that some solid solutions are made for the betterment of thier aging Mom. Then hopefully once the old gal is safely tucked away somewhere, Dorker will be able to resume her once close relationship with her. It's so clearly been an emotional upheaval to Dorker these past few months.
I agree with 97++, but for what it’s worth I would wait until her DH & lovely SIL have dipped their toes in the well. DH sounds like he’s going to have “the talk” with his sister- maybe for real.
I’m sure it hurts Dorker to step away but her children need to step up first & take care of their mother. Directly or indirectly, they put Dorker in this very awkward position. Anyone with a heart would wrestle with this situation and I’m truly sorry it’s this way.
I wanted to thank you for being so candid and willing to continue on this forum. It's like a synopsis of a random family in the US and gives us some relief from our own issues for a space in time. While you frequently apologize for going off topic when you bring up your DD family and related issues, to me it is part of the part and parcel of "AgingCare" because there are two parts to the name. Aging or the aged that we are dealing with and which brings us to this forum and the Care which represents the care givers and their lives.
So, IMHO, you are right on with your discussion of all aspects of your family that you so candidly offer up for our general batting about. You are very open and never want us to misunderstand your position or feelings and those of others. Often we want to gently (or not so gently) suggest an alternate view for your consideration and you take it right in stride and have been willing to begrudgingly accept that your view isn't the only one that matters in all things MIL.
After reading many posts on this site about the book 'Being Mortal' by Atul Gawande, I finally came across it in a small bookstore. I hadn't been looking for it. I had planned to get it but up it popped one day quite by accident and because I had seen it mentioned on this site I knew I should read it. The subtitle is 'Medicine and What Matters in the End'.
It is a New York Times Bestseller and the quote printed on the front says "Wise and deeply moving...An essential and insightful book of our times from one of our finest physician writers." - Oliver Sacks
It's out in paperback now which is the version I have. On the back it lists all the newspapers and other reviewers who selected it as best book of the year and they go on to list quiet a few who selected it that.
Then this.
"Modern medicine has transformed the dangers of birth, injury, and infectious disease from harrowing to manageable. But when it comes to the inescapable realities of aging and death, what medicine can do often runs counter to what it should do. Through eye-opening research and gripping stories of his own patients and family, Gawande reveals the suffering produced by medicine's neglect of the wishes people might have beyond mere survival. To find out what those wishes are, we need to ask. We haven't been asking, but we can learn.
Riveting, honest, and humane, this remarkable book, which has already changed the national conversation on aging and death, shows how the ultimate goal is not a good death but a good life - all the way to the very end."
I so hope you read this book Dorker. It offers up perhaps an avenue of sorts for you to discuss MIL's care with DH and SIL that you haven't had before. Your daughters should read it too. And MIL should read it. SIL niece should read it and SIL's DH.
Oh heck, I'll agree with the quote from Time and say that "This should be mandatory reading for every American."
I say this because MIL's care affects all of the people in your family. It moves the conversation from WHO is right to WHAT is right for the individual elder.
In the end it may not change a thing for MIL's situation but my goal to asking you to read this is that I want you to find a way back to MIL that works for you because I know you love her dearly. Not as a servant but as the dear friend you are.
The facts and thoughts of this book might allow you to elevate the family discussion and help find a space where you all agree and can find a way to work together to achieve mutual goals not only for MIL but for each other as well.
Happy Holidays Dorker.
So very true.
That's the reason no one ever quit drinking because they were hounded to death, or quit smoking, or lost weight, or any other number of things.
MIL is so seriously compromised and should not be living alone any more. That is so very obvious.
She's a shut in. No social outlet, other than what she gleans from visiting docs and can strike up conversations there, and/or the grocery store.
She is so very unstable in her gait/mobility .. and it's truly just a matter of time before a fall occurs that changes the course of it all, for all involved.
Somehow there is, .. even to this point, and who knows how much longer, a "benefit" in it all for her. Otherwise, she would seek to change it.
I'm guessing she would tell me, if I asked her, the "benefit" she gains .. is her "independence".
How independent is she, when she has to depend on her daughter to string together any mode she can scrap together, as to transportation to doctors, and so forth, .. and from 1K miles away. How is that independent?
Last I'd heard, (I haven't asked anymore, and don't intend to). SIL was working with the local metro here and their bus system, to try to work the angle that MIL could be picked up by the local bus that does so for people with disabilities. It sounds like a bit of a nightmare to have to deal with .. many many hoops and hurdles to have to cross to get service .. and then .. you have to give them a 1 hour window for pick up and 1 hour window for return to your home. Any deviation thereof, .. and you can be "suspended" from approval for said service.
I haven't asked anymore questions as to whether the process got off the ground, as to getting her approved for the service (would've required she literally go to the metro transit office, which is in a horrible area of town, to be interviewed, along with the proper paperwork submitted).
She obviously gains something in her fervent wish to remain in her home. She would likely term it "her independence". I don't know that I agree. I don't think she is "independent". But obviously, this situation, which is so very tenuous, works for her.
It makes her son (my husband) sad .. that his mom is so lonely and so frail ..
But I guess, even him, .. it works somehow .. because he too, hasn't seen fit to put the shoulder to the wheel on it all, and get things moving in another direction, or even attempt to do so.
I do feel bad, at times, .. feels like I "abandoned" her in the 9th hour of her need. At times. But .. I do remind myself, a LOT .. "I can't care/do, literally physically, demonstratively, than her actual offspring do, and I did for a LONG LONG LONG TIME".
I truly thought, when I began to back away .. which was about spring, early summer of this year ... things would begin to turn in another direction. Not because I'm all that, and *see .. what'd I tell all you dumbos .. she can't do this*. No, .. because I thought it would be glaringly obvious that she cannot continue the way she is .. and no one in the gap to fill it, to help .. there would have to be "action".
That hasn't been the case.
Seems like it's all piece-mealed/patch worked together ... SIL calling upon neighbors, housekeeper, YD on this end .. and patching it all together, as best she can, from afar . .as to any "need".
So be it. I can't change any of it. Sad and disturbing to know how this will all likely end, and somewhat preventable. Like watching the freight train heading right at you. But I can't do anything to change it, .. and that .. I do realize .. finally .. and harranging DH about it, .. and/or begging SIL .. and/or talking to MIL does nothing to change the course of it.
So, she remains, .. where she wants to be, with ever fiber of her being .. in her home .. lonely, frail and compromised.
As for the "perfect holidays" with everyone feeling well and all in attendance and everything is just right--doesn't happen. We may want it, but in all honesty, in my 41 years of marriage--hasn't happened once and likely won't ever. Someone's sick, someone is with the inlaws that year, someone simply goes MIA, someone doesn't care and never comes to anything....that's more the norm.
We quit trying to make ANY holiday a big stress for anyone else many years ago. We have snow, usually, at Christmas and driving icy roads with 5 kids in tow--it was ridiculous. Family parties became too big and noisy and they collapsed under their own weight. New traditions have begun and that's fine.
You do seem compelled to mark the holiday on "the day of" no matter what--but I know for a fact that my daughter will mark Christmas on the 24th or 26th--her hubby is a doc and is on call on Christmas, 24 hour shift IN the hospital, so he won't even be home! We have 4 Drs. in the family, 2 EMT's and they all work crazy hours.
Even Christmas Day, I have a brunch for all the kids and gkids who are in town at noon. One family is incredibly late, always, and we eat without them and they come, we open gifts and they get "late" brunch. It's annoying, but we never say anything. They know what they're missing. We just eat in shifts.
As for DH's mother and mine--Mine will come here for Christmas Brunch and that does her in. MIL hates me fervently, so she hasn't been here for over 20 years. IF she wanted to see the gg-kids (and she only cares about her daughter's kids and g-kids) she would make an effort. She doesn't. And all that is OK.
My sister has cooked T-giving dinner on the Sunday before for ages. It just works better. Their family then skis on Thanksgiving, if the resorts are open (they were this year!)
Lowered expectations is the name of the game. Don't expect much and you won't be disappointed.
As far as the ongoing drama with MIL---well, talk is cheap. It would be nice to see some actual action taken while SIL is here, but I wouldn't hold my breath nor offer any advice. Now you've stepped away, the truth has been peeled back and all can now see she's in dire need of more care. It's sad, since she did this to herself, but at any age, we reap what we sow. Just continue being supportive of ANY move to an ALF and helping DH to accept and be on board with this. He's likely to duck and run when the actual "move" happens. If it does. Hopefully, he and sis will come to terms and help MIL to "make the decision" on her own. Either way, she isn't getting better and she's got to accept a huge lifestyle change or accept that she will be frail, lonely and alone with her dog. This is a problem that you know you can't fix. (Though, wow, you tried!)
Have a happy holiday season--in spite of all that's happening.
I am A-okay with the plan as it sits presently.
Would I always be happy, if every holiday that rolls around, .. be that Easter, Tgiving .. Xmas .. all of them .. they didn't come? No, .. that wouldn't please me. I would like to think that some of them .. somewhere in it all, they can make it here, to what might be on the radar for our day to mark the occasion (not all of them, .. but some times .. ??...maybe).
That wouldn't please me. In the end, .. what I have said to her, .. .it's a suggestion for a way to work things that would be more pleasing to me. She's going to do, in the end, as she pleases to suit her own family .. and I'm fully aware of that. As I've been given the same latitude thru the years with my own parents and DH's parents.
I'm just asking that "some" of them .. be spent .. in "quality" time .. rather than flying in here .. on every single holiday .. having spent the better portion of the day .. stressed out at them running late on the other end, .. and then knowing they still have to (want to?) get here too. It just doesn't work well.
I think, in some sense, . ya know .. it might be that the above works .. in the case where you have folks that love that kinda thing. And there are those that do. They want to be on the go .. and seeing all they can, all in one day .. and stopping in briefly here, and there .. and spending a little time in each spot .. and then on to the next and the next. For some people that works great, .. it's what pleases them.
It OBVIOUSLY does not in DD's case. We've been doing this now for years .. it's how they've done things .. and it is always always always .. so stressful for them .. her more specifically .. and more so now that she has kids to drag around. So, stop doing that. It's really not that difficult.
So your MIL has to forgo seeing you guys on one of the holidays .. at all .. yes, even though we live 10/15 mins. apart, and her assertion *it's not that hard, we live 10/15 minutes apart* .. so your MIL has to adjust to the fact that she will not have you guys every single holiday .. indeed ... you may spend one of them in this direction and not even go there .. at all, .. for the day .. even though (gasp.. horror of horrors) we only live 10/15 mins away ...
But in exchange .. your day is more relaxing.
In exchange .. you will do the same for her, at some point and spend the day there .. and not have to hussle along .. and deal with cranky kids that are un-napped .. and a too tight of schedule trying to be all places and all things to all people inside of one 8/10 hour period of daylight or there about.
So just stop doing that!
On another note. DH had to go to his mom's late last night, both commodes blocked and not flushing.
He went and took care of that problem for her, and visited a bit. I asked him how she's doing .. and he said .. it's sad .. it's just sad .. she's so frail .. so slow getting up and getting anywhere from point A to B .. and so unstable .. and she's just so lonely .. it's just her and her little dog .. and that's it . she's just so lonely ... and she's .. I don't know .. she's so hard on herself .. talking about how disappointed she is in herself that she has gotten to this point. He said he told her, "Mom .. give yourself some slack, you're almost 90 years old .. you aren't supposed to be spry enough to plow the back 40 at this point in your life".
Said she is really down .. and just so discouraged and lonely.
I responded, "doesn't have to be that way, her choice .. she could go live with your sister .. she could get the ball in motion as to AL somewhere .. her choice".
He said (and I hold out little hope ..and at this point, it actually feels better to me that *hope* is not really on my radar) .. he said that he intends when his sister comes here over xmas, there is to be a pow wow between she and he . that she makes noise that she is going to talk mother into .. in the spring of 2018 .. that she will take her to where she lives .. but that she needs to be .. as she comes here for xmas .. taking her NOW.
I responded, "...and your mom would be okay with that?, .. I haven't heard that .. last I heard she wants to stay IN HER OWN HOME and you guys are going to honor that request".
He said, .. "she needs to be talked to, it's really . it's just so sad .. she's sad and lonely and so frail .. and ... it's just not good .. she needs to not be living alone anymore".
I responded, .. "well .. you guys will have to sit down and talk about it and figure what you're going to do", and I moved on with my night at that point.
And it actually feels better, to me anyway .. at this point, .. that I have removed myself to the degree .. physically and more to the point, emotionally .. from it all .. that I'm not all up in arms over whether they sit down and talk, or don't .. their mom .. their decisions.
Finally to be at the point where their lack of addressing anything .. any of them, .. a clearer understanding on my part, to wear it/live it/breathe it, . doesn't then make it my problem to fill in the gaps as to her loneliness and her frailty .. and so forth.
I feel bad for her, .. I truly do .. and if I could fix it all somehow and make her a spry 40 year old without all these mobility issues, I'd do it .. I'd of already done it. But of course, that's not possible to do.
Still .. doesn't make it my problem to address her loneliness and her mobility issues and her frailties. And that, finally .. after all these months, . .feels better to me.
But let's see if D sticks to the plan. There are more than four weeks where her ils can change her mind. They will probably change her H's mind first, and then he will get to work on changing hers.
It's really not that hard. I guess, assuming all parties are willing and understand each other.
Maybe the mom on that end, being she only has the one child . .maybe there is unwillingness on that end, which is where the stumbling block is. Don't really know.
What I'm not willing to do, is forgo every single holiday in favor of "don't come here ever". That isn't acceptable. I guess it would be, if it had to be. What if she told me, "nope .. doesn't work for us .. his mom wants us and we're not running the roads, and he's an only child there on that end, .. you'll have to make due without us".
I guess I'd have to lump it.
It's, in the end, only my voicing what I would prefer as to my druthers in it all, and it's really not all that complicated. Particularly when you realize we all live within 10/15 mins of each other. It's not like all of us live an air flight away from one another ..
So I don't see you on xmas day at all, ... I'm fine with it . .have said so all along. But maybe next time xmas rolls around, or .. I don't know .. Easter .. or Memorial Day ... whatever .. pick one, I don't care ... maybe instead of running the roads, .. if you are doing something to mark that occasion .. and not just ducking for cover at home .. maybe this end, .. spend that specific date .. with this end .. DM and DF.
It's like they are trying to reinvent the wheel .. it's really not all that difficult a concept.
I think I am in fact, flexible in that I'm not at all saying I expect they be here, every holiday .. without fail. Therein is my flexibility in it all.
But I don't like it, that I'm .. kinda feels like .. the afterthought .. as they arrive here taxed and stressed .. and spent .. and there's nothing of them to enjoy any longer, . it's really just for them a period of de-escalation from a too harried day.
So stop doing that! It's not that hard. Sheesh!
I guess, .. if they are meeting resistance on the other end, with his mom .. and it does seem that's a factor .. as her assertion is, "it's not that hard, we all live 10/15 mins away from one another". If that's where there is a brick wall in it all, then I guess, .. they either need to figure a way to make her understand it's too taxing to them .. or .. make me understand .. that I will NEVER EVER get them on a holiday . because they are NOT going to disappoint his mom, the mom of an only child.
But DD hasn’t logged as many years as you.... hasn’t mastered the options. Yet. She’ll get there.
I think your heart-to-heart spurred DD to stop wishing and start making changes. She’s already testing the waters with Christmas. Unfortunately, it’s a plan that doesn’t give you more DD time. But she’ll work up to that.
Regardless — after Christmas, DD will conclude 2017 with one major holiday “done differently” under her belt. It’s good groundwork.
Hopefully, the experience will help her & hubby be more resourceful when future holidays pop up. As they always do!
Thanksgiving in its various forms and harvest festivals are celebrated universally. The OT Feast of the Tabernacles was 8 days long in the fall - and I imagine it was so families could enjoy the time of visiting with all the relatives and not rush around only on the one "proper" day! The Lord does have mighty good ideas and we can use that as our model for our modern ingatherings and expressions of thankfulness and plenty.
That was actually the catalyst for some further dialogue on the whole topic.
That's when I began telling her that she doesn't "have to" come this way .. just don't .. just don't do it ... stay home, your kids don't deserve to have their lives upended and all of you stressed out, the 4 yo at least, she will have new toys she wants to enjoy .. so don't do it.
They are to come here briefly on xmas eve, .. and we will go to church (YD has to work xmas eve, and OD .. doesn't attend *christian* events .. so she won't be around for that portion of it all) after having some kinda lite dinner and somewhere in all that, .. the 4 yo can open her presents from the grands here .. and help to open the couple of things for the babies .. and they can go on their way.
Xmas day, she says they intend to stay home, .. and the other mom has already been told they will not be going anywhere, to do anything until after 5 PM .. so they can have a relaxing day.
They will then, go have dinner at the mother in law's house, and not come here, at all that day. That works for me. And that's when she was told, .. that's what I like to see, .. but I hope that I can be afforded the same at some point .. that she can come here, .. at a time that works for her, not pushed/stressed and over taxed with it all.
I'm glad she has a better plan at least for this next "holiday". It will likely show them that things don't have to be so pushed and harried. I hope so anyway.
As for our plans .. SIL will be in town at that point, and we've already talked of getting one of those name-brand store bought hams .. and making a couple of easy side dishes, .. and that's that. Keep it simple.
I know that YD doesn't have to work, so she will likely be on the scene for some portion thereof, and OD .. also . .likely, at least some. DD .. she and her family can kick back and relax .. and I too won't have to stress that they and their circus will show up, after the fact, . .and all stressed out and scowls ..
Should be more pleasant for all concerned.
DD's MIL is an only child herself, and in fact, they lost her dad in the Fall of 2015 and he had been sick for YEARS .. in and out of the hospital .. I think dozens of times, before he finally passed. They were an integral part of all that scene. The elderly man lived here locally with his wife to care for him for the most part, but with loads of help from their only daughter (DD's MIL).
I would imagine if/when that MIL ages .. and her husband, who is stepdad to DD's husband .. it will fall in DD's husband's corner .. to whatever degree. The stepdad in this picture does have grown kids, but strains/tensions there as to any real relationships.
There has to be a better solution than what currently plays out. Some suggest, holding event on a different day entirely. That kinda defeats the purpose, IMO. Only from the respect that .. if I can have home and hearth and all available, .. as to my offspring .. it's certainly going to be on the designated holiday and not the days surrounding it .. as their work .. makes the alternative not really possible. OD, for instance, had to go right back to work, the day after t-giving and she already works .. 6 days a week, her only day off on Sundays .. generally.
As it was, this time, I didn't have YD .. she had to work, .. not even on t-giving itself ..
I will gladly/happily give up .. and have done so .. I never saw them last xmas at all, .. until two days later .. after xmas, they attended church with us the night before .. on xmas eve .. but then departed out company to go home (DD pregnant .. not feeling well) .. and they spent xmas with her husband's side of the family .. as the stepdad's kids did come .. and in that case, there are other children for the 4 yo to play with who also are in attendance .. and so they went in that direction last xmas .. entirely .. and we didn't see them .. not until two days after xmas for the 4 yo to open her presents here.
There was no stink coming from my end on it. I defer, always .. if the 4 yo has cousins that she can play with to make her day more fun, then why would I want her to be here, .. where there are no other children to play with.
They were with DD's husband's family on T-giving last year, in fact, .. entirely. Reason . my husband wanted to hunt the entirety of T-giving .. where he occasionally goes, .. to a relative out of state .. that relative was only going to be home a limited amount of time (is a trucker for a living) .. and so he wanted to go while that relative was available, which meant my husband would be out of town .. hunting .. on t-giving itself .. and not here. My mom was out of town .. I opted to go out to lunch .. with MIL and SIL who was in town .. and that's what we did. I didn't see them at all, .. and again, no stink coming from me on the topic ...
I think, to try to more pinpoint my beef in it all, .. I will gladly defer to not having DD's family around, on some holidays .. not at all .. if it means that the holidays I DO GET THEM are "quality" time.
It's not fun for them, .. obviously .. as much is said by all involved, .. to have to be pressed and running back and forth, and stuffed to the gills and then come here and try to cram another morsel down their throats .. and kids that are cranky .. and them tired themselves .. it's not fun for them, they have said as much. It certainly isn't pleasant for me .. I have worked to prepare a nice meal that can be enjoyed .. and .. they are part of who I would want to be here to do so. Only they show up . and aren't in any position to partake of any of it.
There has to be a better way to manage it all. I know that I had, the years my kids were little (once they got a little older, I began hosting some semblance around it all, so that I didn't have to drag my kids around town) when they were little .. we'd go either to my mom's, my dad's .. or to MIL's .. and it would be swapped out .. if MIL got us on t-giving ... then there was a real high likelihood she wouldn't see us on xmas .. or maybe if she did, it'd be the next day or something similar.
I just don't get it, .. why they put themselves (and me) through this. I would no more try to be in the road going to two and three places in one given holiday than the man on the moon! They used to have to go to the MIL's for brunch on xmas morning .. and then they'd go do their xmas meal .. wherever that might be .. either at the g'ma on that end .. or here .. and then try to also come here if that mother was hosting the meal itself .. 3 places in one day. That is absolutely nuts.
I've had a long long time, quite a few years here .. of trying to weigh it all, .. and the approach .. and weather what works for them .. and it obviously does not work for me.
But what's my alternative to what they have set up presently .. tell them don't come .. "no, .. you guys .. just don't come this way ... when you get here, you guys are always stressed and over-tired, just don't .. don't come this way". Well then I never get to enjoy them at a holiday dinner, along with the other offspring that can make it here.
All I can do is make my thoughts/my wishes known. They don't have to honor anything I've asked of them .. and I guess .. status quo would continue, them showing up here . harried and so forth .. and I get what is, as someone else put it, .. almost as an afterthought .. of their presence.
I'd much rather they not even come here, .. enjoy your day however you see fit .. go in the direction of his mom .. if that makes you happy .. and .. enjoy what time you designate as appropriate for that .. don't even come in this direction at all.
But can I have .. (fill in the blank) as to the holiday .. that you guys come in this direction absent any other stress and distraction?
I feel for DD and that situation . obviously what they do presently .. as to trying to placate all parties involved .. it's what they "want" to do, .. though I question that ... as you see how stressed they are .. and not in pleasant moods behind it all. It's admirable that they are so family-centered .. what they do .. is born out of a pure desire to be with family, period. I get that, and I do see and appreciate it.
But .. what they presently do .. doesn't work for me ... not on every holiday .. to have it end up this way. Just don't come .. don't .. go in another direction, make your lives easier .. but .. afford me the same privilege .. at least some of the time, that I get your presence, absent all the stress involved. That's all I'm asking.
You can always vary the menu to be fresh and different, so you don't and up with so much Turkey leftovers, you can plan games and crafts, and you will be the FUN Grandparents to enjoy the holiday with!
That's what we do, and it's worked out great! My husband and I were that young family, dragging our four little ones up and down the hi-way coridor, even though our parents lived only 30 minutes apart. My other sibling too, and often we overlapped, until we became so exhausted trying to please all of the people, all of the time, that we weren't enjoying Any of it, so now we tell our kids to go and enjoy their holiday feists with their other families, and they have incorporated a special day just so that we can all enjoy ourselves together, our original nuclear family.
I love it this way, no more stress, except for this year, where I was too sick to participate, darn it! It can be done! Our kids are all in their 30's, with spouses and kids of their own, its too bloody exhausting!
The 4 y/o is a wonderful age for holiday things...perhaps you could take her to some things, just the two of you?
I am wondering what will happen when you SIL's parents age. Will they demand that SIL take care of them? Or your D? (Yikes!) Since SIL is an only child, it seems like they will demand that he meet their needs (and one of them not even his own father...another yikes!). It will be interesting to learn what happens when SIL's grandmother needs help.
And it is easy to figure out the holidays - keep a note or look at pictures. Gosh, we were collecting easter eggs and MIL, this means Thanksgiving is with DM and DF.
I also think you handled it very kindly. Let us know what happens
When our kids were young, we were expected to be at my inlaws on Christmas morning by 10. I wanted to have a lot more time by ourselves--but no, we did what his mother wanted. We'd show up at 10, with 5 kids in tow, and DH's sis would show up anywhere from 2-3 hours later. No real excuse, and my poor kids would be sad b/c we'd hustled them through the morning to be sure to get to Gma's on time. Dh took YEARS to figure out that we were being manipulated by a chronically late SIL, and it was ruining Christmas for all of us! (I get that part about wondering how these people make it in life--being 1 hour late to everything and more than 2 hours late to most other things--I just think it's unspeakably rude.
We did make the big jump, finally! to NOT going to gma's for breakfast, instead asked my inlaws to come see us, and this worked much, much better. Then we'd see my side of the family either Christmas night or a few nights later. Times changed, families grew and traditions have also changed.
I don't expect my kids (5 of them , all married with kids) to come to ANYTHING unless it fits their schedule, I just cannot deal with the drama. If my son comes to town, 80% of their time is spent with his wife's family. They give us an hour or two and then take off 50 miles north to hang out with her kin. He hates it, but he's not in charge.
It is so hard to be flexible...it hurts when year after year you feel that you are just an afterthought...but it's not worth the energy to make a fuss about it. Plus the kids get upset and that's not what any holiday is about.
I set up a time and place and date for the "big" holidays. I also will start serving dinner on time. I have one daughter who is always late, I have no idea why, but her family has had many a cold dinner, b/c they couldn't get their act together. No fuss about it, just "Oh, hey glad you made it" and we eat in shifts.
Thanksgiving this year was made by my daughter with plenty of help. She only did the turkey and potatoes and stuffing. My other daughters and I did the rest. It's time for me to hand off some of the traditions, and I am happily going to do so.
I'm really sorry that your family kind of fell through. Perhaps you put a little too much emphasis on celebrating the actual "day of". If things aren't going to change with DD and her hubby and family--maybe do something another day instead. Lower your expectations a little. Realize how much you have to be grateful for and go with that feeling--and let go of the expectations of the "Norman Rockwell" holidays. They don't exist!
You cannot change the other people in this dynamic, you shouldn't even attempt to. You can be the one to change. I know I have found I am far more flexible than I thought I could be. I try to just enjoy the kids who come for a holiday event, wish the others could also be there, but basically, go with the flow. (However, I will NEVER understand my SIL's chronic lateness. It's appalling!!)
And at least your MIL didn't fabricate some great need for a run to the ER or something. Too bad she decided to sulk at home, but, well, she made her choice.
Learn from this and cut waaaaay back on Christmas.
I did tell her that, .. when she did arrive .. 3 plus hours late and taxed/stressed/tired/full, heads clogged and pounding with congestion. "You guys probably should've stayed home and had plates brought to you".
Her response: "I thought about it, believe me, but I texted with my MIL this morning and told her we are all sick and her response was *I'm sorry to hear that, we're looking forward to seeing you guys later*, .. so it didn't sound like she was on that page of forgoing any visit for the day, so we soldiered through".
This is what DD had to say about the whole thing. Would've been smart of me, .. I knew they were under the weather even before t-giving, .. to give her that latitude .. "don't bother trying to run the roads and get here .. just stay home and rest".
But it didn't occur to me .. I guess .. I was busy making all the food .. food that went uneaten mostly. That's on me, .. that's nobody's fault but my own.
I know this is a board for aged discussion .. and this is so off topic. But I'll put it out there for any who care to respond, or not.
I did have a talk .. a .. as they say in the south "come to Jesus meeting" .. with DD about this whole topic.
See .. what you have to comprehend here .. DD's in laws live 10 minutes away .. and we are all within 10/15 mins of each other here. I guess things would look a lot different, if DD lived in another state or vice versa .. and that is in fact the case, for a LOT of families.
That is not the case for here. We all live within 10/15 minutes of each other.
I don't care to "dictate" to DD what she does with her holidays .. truly I do not. I wouldn't want that done to me .. I'd buck up against it.
But .. there has to be some better solution. There just has to be. The better solution, at least in my view .... pick a holiday .. I don't care which one .. you choose .. stay home .. do whatever traditions you are going to create for your own family ... but if you pick one .. I don't care which one ... and tell me that you and your family are going to spend it with us, then do that .. ... "quality" time ... and spend that designated holiday with your family of origin.
I have taken what I would deem .. pretty much a backseat and not balked .. not out loud, for a number of years, as holidays roll around. There were some dust ups in the early years as they dated .. and newly married .. as you watch what goes on. But I eventually tried to resign myself to the fact that holidays .. at least with regard to that DD .. and company .. would just be kinda sticky and icky and not quite what I would want.
Until .. now there are g'kids .. and it gets even ickier and sticky and not at all pleasing.
What you see transpire ... every holiday .. because we all live in such close proximity .. this is what goes on .. routinely .. and it displeases me .. greatly.
This past week, at t-giving .. no different than any other holiday with the exception that maybe this time, it was made a little worse by the fact they were all sick, which isn't typical .. but generally speaking .. all holidays go this way.
DD's husband .. he is an only child (well there is a blended family there, the stepdad has grown kids that live in another state . but it appears .. from what I know, which is limited, .. the grown kids that live in another state .. and the relationship there .. strained .. they don't come around much .. and the mom of DD's husband .. and stepdad .. they never travel . you never hear of them traveling to the other state to visit the other kids .. the grown kids of the stepdad .. and when they do come here, .. which isn't frequent ... it usually has a lot of tension and strife as part of it all).
So, for all practical purposes, .. DD's husband is pretty much an only child (grown yes .. and a family of his own, twins and a 4 yo and a wife) .. but for all practical purposes, it is seemingly one that he is an only child to that situation.
A holiday rolls around, I don't know, pick one, .. any holiday .. and here's what goes on.
Generally speaking .. because the stepdad on that end works weird hours . they plan their event .. generally .. earlier than what I would plan mine .. so that the stepdad can partake and be a part of things and then rest, to go into his weird hours at work. Every holiday. It's not that you ever hear, .. "oh they are going out of town for "x" holiday .. they won't even be here". Nope .. they are here. And so all holidays, .. any of them, they do their gig on their end, and generally .. earlier in the day to accommodate the step dad's schedule.
Fine and good you say .. that works .. then they can go in that direction and if they care, .. and are so inclined, .. come in your direction also .. and they kill all birds with one stone.
Sounds like that would work fine. But it doesn't in the end.
What ends up happening ... DD's MIL .. she is notoriously not punctual .. with anything she ever does, .. and not only just a little .. usually very very much late with whatever she does, be that the time she has designated on any given day to stop by and pick up the 4 yo for whatever is on their radar, or drop the 4 yo off .. from whatever they've set out to do, or holiday dinners, .. whatever it is, the woman is notoriously not punctual, and usually by a LOT. It's just who she is.
So what happens is, and this is routine, it happens consistently with all holidays .. I guess there is expectation on that end, they be front and center .. for all holidays .. or .. who knows .. maybe that's their choice, DD and her husband . to be front and center for all holidays on that end.
They go in that direction for a designated holiday .. all of them .. and for a time slotted as "x'clock" .. and it always always always runs late, by 2 or 3 hours. I am not exaggerating here, that is the truth .. and that's the case for everything on that end .. I don't know how they ever get to a doctor appointment on time, or manage life in general being so late to everything.
But I'm also .. if I'm to be there at 8, wherever "there is" .. you can bet I'll be there at 7:45 .. I am, I guess, some would say anal about such things. Not all are.
The impact the above has on this end. They .. I guess .. for whatever their reasons .. DD says that it's all borne out of .. they are both, she and her husband both, very family centered, .. it's how they prefer to spend their time, always .. always .. always .. this isn't a young couple that you see, .. dumping their kids, so they can go out and party with peers .. that just isn't them .. they are very family-centric .. much rather spend their time with family. I guess, in that vein .. they try to .. on holidays .. be all things to all people .. and so they intend .. every holiday .. they go in the direction of his mother's .. and partake there, ..with promise to also come here (we live 10 mins from each other, all of us).
Sounds great right?
Not so great, when you figure what goes on, in the end, .. they come here .. usually 2 or 3 hours later than what was originally set out as the time to do things on this end .. and usually by that time, .. they are taxed, stressed (particular DD .. as she is more of the ilk that i am, punctual to a fault) .. she is now stressed and generally speaking .. pizzed that things have gone awry on that end, as they always do .. and the kids .. her 4 yo (now there are twins in the mix) .. tired/cranky, nap schedule up ended .. and full, they've just eaten, 2 or 3 hours late .. and so they arrive here .. with the demeanor as described above. Taxed, stressed, .. and tired, . and full.
Generally speaking, I am now also tired, .. I've worked my butt off putting together a meal .. and we've already partaken on this end, them now running extremely late, .. and now annoyed .. and by the time they arrive here, .. I'm spent myself ..
Yes, I have urged, .. in the earlier years .. "why do you guys put yourselves through that, .. pick a holiday and match a family to it, .. and go in that direction .. and yes that means I'll do without you on some holidays .. but I will get you on other holidays not so taxed and stressed out".
In the earlier years when I used to fight that battle, it didn't go well .. I guess .. too immature to absorb the whole premise and seen as somewhere to take stance and show mom we'll do it our way. And so for a number of years, .. I have backed off of saying anything any further and just lived with the sticky icky biz of how holidays look on this end, as a result of what goes on in their world, .. and as to any presence of DD and her crew as a part of things here.
Until now. I did speak up and have a "come to Jesus" discussion with DD. Not heated, not argumentative/combative .. as it would've gone in years past .. too immature to even discuss it.
But .. a heartfelt .. imparting to her, that the status quo of the way they do things presently .. leaves me with a sadness .. that I never get to enjoy her and her family at my holiday table, with the rest of the family .. if and when that can occur .. fresh/ready for the day .. and not taxed and stressed out and already full, .. that it doesn't work on this end .. that I realize .. she cannot be here for ALL holidays .. she was never shown that as a child growing up .. that she grew up in our household where we navigated parents that also live here .. and picking one direction and going in that one direction for that designated holiday and yes that meant another set of parents would do without our presence, but in exchange they would get us .. on another designated holiday and not stressed, taxed, full, pizzed, etc etc.
Told her, .. that I realize, as her children get older, it's going to be more and more of a problem for them dragging 3 kids around .. and being all things to all people on any one given day .. and they may even get to where they stay home and set their own traditions on holidays and I get that, it's what we lived, ..
But what I am asking .. once again, was on this soapbox in their earlier years, but dropped it for a number of years and just took a backseat to all the above mess and ick that goes on .. what I am asking, .. can you guys not pick a holiday ... I don't know which one, I can't get out my calendar at his point and see what I'm doing on Easter in the year 2022 .. and designate that one, I can't say .. but pick one .. any holiday .. I don't know .. pick one .. go in that direction and that direction only .. don't even worry about coming here .. at all .. on that day ... and taxing yourselves and your kids ... just enjoy having to only go in one direction and one only .. and designate whatever time you allot as appropriate to address that direction and time spent there .. and enjoy it, but also afford me the same, on another holiday .. can't I ever get the presence of my daughter and her family, my g'kids that I dearly love .. on a holiday .. that it isn't you guys arriving here, aggravated from already now being pushed and stressed because things ran late on the other end, and you're already full .. and you're aggravated and tired and stressed .. can't I ever get a single holiday .. I don't know which one ... but one that isn't so a picture that you guys are so stressed and over-taxed with trying to run hither and yon in one single lone day.
I'm happy to say that things .. at least .. were discussed on an adult level .. rather than heated argument .. and hurt feelings, which is a humongous improvement over years past.
This all came as a huge epiphany to DD .. and one that was quite upsetting to her I might add .. as she imparted that they do all they can .. it's THEIR wish .. to spend holidays with family .. they both being folks that enjoy family .. and they do all they can to make that, incorporate that . as part of their holiday .. and that it came as quite a disappointing surprise to her, that her mother is less than pleased with how they have been doing things ... Her words, which I thought rather touching, "Mom you mean the world to me, and it hurts me to know that what I do somehow makes you sad .. I wouldn't do that, not intentionally".
I did tell her that I realize what she is trying to do, and appreciate it . that family is so important to her .. and so she tries to cover all bases .. to achieve that, that I see that point and appreciate it.
But asked that she please step into my shoes and look at things from where I sit .. that I get .. for lack of a better term to use .. I get the sloppy 2nd's of what is leftover after a day of too much stress, dragging 3 kids around, and upending nap schedules and lack of any punctuality on the other end, ..and by the time they arrive here .. things are generally over with .. and they are tired/stressed and it's not at all what I would want .. that I am more than willing, and have said it too many times to count, .. I will do without your presence, at all .. on some holidays .. in the interest that your day is not so taxing .. so stressed, .. and in the interest that there can be hope that maybe another given holiday . will be spent in this direction solely rather than the push and stress of having to be all things to all people in one given day .. I've said it and said it .. I will gladly give up some holidays .. in the interest of the above .. more than happy to do it. What I want is "quality" not quantity. And have said it and said it and said it. Only difference is ... I haven't said it in a number of years .. figuring .. oh well, .. that's their world, holidays on this end are just gonna look like this icky biz of them stressed and running hither and yon.
It'd be one thing if that was what is pleasurable to them .. a lot of people, it is .. the more stops the better, all the festivity of it all, stopping here, stopping there .. saying hi and visiting with this one and that one .. and so forth. That isn't the case.
She arrives here .. spent .. taxed/stressed/pizzed .. full .. and the holiday .. pick one, any of them, they are all the same, the above is how it always is. Not at all what I want.
I suspect somewhere in it all, lies the problem that the mother on the other end, is very much one of the notion, "We all live 10 mins from each other, it's not that hard". Those words have been repeated to me, as words the MIL has spoken as to it all. Very true .. I guess in a perfect world.
But there is no perfect world that exists, so the above .. in the end .. it really doesn't work .. not really.
It has just been very interesting .. having some real true dialogue on the topic with DD . who then tearfully (never meant to make her cry about it) .. struggling to grasp how she can better navigate it all, .. her words, ... "so now I guess ........... I need to figure out the PITA biz of who gets to be disappointed in our absence at their holiday table ... and gee, where was I at Easter, so now where do I go now that it's T-giving .. and that whole PITA". I responded, .. "and what you're doing presently isn't a PITA?".
It obviously IS a PITA .. to her .. as she arrive here, stressed out and full from having already eaten .. and tired, .. .. and this is status quo as every holiday rolls around.
I guess, it's a bit difficult in that we all live right here. But that was the case for myself, my parents live here in town .. as does DH's .. and so thru the years, we too had to navigate who didn't get our presence for any specific holiday and the why's and so forth .. it's not impossible.
I just wonder why I walk away from all this with just a sadness. I do.
I don't wish to get in the middle of her life and be the PITA mother that demands .. no by GOD you better be here, or else. That isn't at all what I'm about. Nor am I about, "well your'e here now, so wipe that scowl off your face at all the stress of the day, and quit stressing, I don't wanna hear it". I'm not that way .. and she doesn't receive that kinda welcome when she does arrive here .. I listen .. I try to make the best out of what is really, in the end, not at all, what I'd have it to be ..
I guess, the long and short of the having talked to her and laid all this out, is that she herself expressed that holidays .. are far too stressful for her .. and her husband and the kids .. that they are going to have to find another way ..
I can only hope (but I don't hold out a lot of hope that will happen) that things will look different going forward ..
As I said, and please don't misunderstand .. I don't intend that they be here every holiday .. I am not the mother in all this with that as my stance. I'm fully aware they may choose to stay home and do their own things ... they may choose to in the direction of her husband's mom solely for a designated holiday which means no presence here at all, by that end of my offspring .. I get that, and I'm all for it, .. absolutely 100% hands down. If it means, that I can get the same.. that give me another holiday that works for you, .. that you aren't having to run the roads, and tax your kids and their schedules and so forth and can be pleasant and enjoyable .. all for it.