I've posted before about in-law care-giving. Aged mother in law, lives in same town.
We are at the tail end of a visit from sister in law from several states away. Sister in law has been here for 3 weeks caring for her mother. A much welcome respite.
It had been discussed, prior to her arrival here on the scene, she would be talking it over with her mother, to try and get her mom to come up to her home, for a stay of maybe a few months.
This, in my opinion, is absolutely essential, as I am expecting twin grand-children, due in about 1 month (if they don't come sooner, as is the case a lot of times with multiples pregnancies). The expectant mother also lives locally here, and has a 4 year old daughter. I will be on that front, helping .. as much as is needed. And not on the front with mother in law and care-giving, and have made that as obvious and apparent as I know how to make it. It would be great if mother in law would agree to go to her daughter's home (several states away) for a period of a few months .. and allow me the latitude to put my energies where I want them to be, on my daughter who will have had a c-section .. and my grand-daughter (4 years old) and new twin babies.
Nothing doing. Mother in law has dug in her heels, and will not hear of it, going to stay with her daughter for any period of time.
What are her reasons?
In mother in law's defense ... her daughter ... I don't even know how to describe it. I will say that when her daughter comes here to visit, she all but breathes for her mother and if she could find a way to do that, she'd do that too. She is the most nervous nelly, never sit down - ever ... worry wart, do everything, all the time .. person that I've ever encountered.
A great example, as I was taking her to the airport yesterday for her departure, . I reached into the fridge to grab myself a bottled water and shut the fridge and turned to walk away, as I've done for all of my 50 plus years living on this earth .. and she said to me, "Oh make sure that fridge shut". WTH???? Like I don't know how to shut a fridge? That's just a small, very small slice of what she is ... how she is.
She is so very hyper-vigilant, seeing to every minute details down to it's finest most minuscule point, fine tooth comb, questioning every point along the way, "should we do thus and so, but maybe if we do thus and so, then such and such will happen, maybe we should do it thus and so .. but then so and so might happen, maybe we shouldn't do thus and so, but do "x" "y" and "z" instead, but if we don't do it that way then ..........", on and on and on and on it goes. And usually in hyper warp speed, as to every single friggin thing.
If her mother moans .. "what's wrong mother?, why did you moan, are you alright?".
Mother: "Yes, I'm fine, I was just sighing out loud".
Sister: "Why did you sigh? Are you hurting, are you sure you're alright, why are you sighing what's the matter?"
Mother: "For God's sake __________________, I was just sighing, .. calm down, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, .. because if something is wrong you need to tell me".
Mother: "Everything is fine, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, we did a lot yesterday, did we do too much, maybe we shouldn't of gone to two doctors in one day .. was that too much for you, are you too tired now, maybe we need to move those other doctor appointments so we won't have two in one day, is that too much for you, for one day .. is that why you were sighing .. what's wrong, are you sure you're alright".
Hopefully that kinda gives a little bit of a snapshot of what goes on when sister is in the ring directing things.
So in mother in law's defense.. I do get it, why she wouldn't be chomping at the bit to go to her daughter's home.
BUT ....
The only experience she has with her daughter, in the last years as mother in law has aged and been unable to go anywhere much, has been the daughter coming here, periodically, for periods of about 3 weeks at a stretch. When her daughter comes here, she moves heaven and earth for her mother and then some, and doesn't sit down, doesn't stop .. the WHOLE ENTIRE TIME.
Is there a possibility maybe (as I said to mother in law, when she expressed that isn't happening - talking to me - her going to her daughters .. ever) .. could it be possible that maybe if you would go to where she lives .. she'd be more busy managing her own life in that setting than your's and she would get out of your backside .. and not be as hyper-drive-vigilant as you experience in her, when she's here, could that be possible.
The daughter is retired, lives several states away. Does come here, generally, every few months .. and stays for a period of about 3 weeks at a stretch. I wish I could make a list of everything the daughter did when here this last time, but it would take up the whole character allotment:
However, I believe that I read that one of the provisions of ACA is that if a person has established Medicaid eligibility in one state, another state cannot then impose a residency requirement.
DH and SIL need to be talking to each other and to an Eldercare attorney.
(As I said before, I will step in, to assist, if it looks as though things are making forward progress .. and this is going to actually take place ... I will help ... but not until). Not going down more rabbit holes.
Yesterday, in the mail, a small envelope came, addressed to YD, from SIL.
It was a thank you card .. and inside a small check for $25.
A thank you note, for taking MIL to the doctor and errands. And a small note, "let me know if you are able to assist with other doc visits and errands", after the kind words thanking YD.
Now, why be a cynic? It was just a sweet thank you card, with some compensation. Why be a cynic about such a thing?
Well, ... YD has done .. in the past .. for MIL, .. the above and other things .. washing the dog for her, running errands, .. doc visits, .. etc etc.
It's never been "compensated" previously, .. nor a special effort at a thank you card.
YD loves her grandma .. and has done in the past .. for that reason solely. But .. has, at times, become aggravated at how much there is to do, never-ending .. and that it would end up taking what would be her only day off, only to the next week, same thing, different needs. It would aggravate her.
And I've said that to SIL in the past, .. as to the fact that YD isn't going to be anyone that can be routinely counted upon to be up to bat with it all. She is 24 yo, .. she has her own interests/life .. and she will help .. absolutely she will. But .. not when it takes all day of what is her day off, consistently. She has a problem with that. And I've said that to SIL (this is back when I was on the front, but maybe I was spent .. having taken my time with various issues, and so YD would step in and do some).
So, the way I read that little thank you card and the check sent to her for compensation, if she can line YD's pockets .. then YD might .. maybe possibly .. one can hope (if you're SIL) .. YD may be more amiable to stepping into Dorker's spot to do what Dorker will no longer do. Line her pockets and you stand a better chance, .. or maybe that's the chance SIL was trying to take.
And if it matters, no .. I never rec'd a thank you card, (verbal thank you's, by the gazillions) ... nor any monetary compensation. Nor did I ask for it. Nor, for that matter, would it, at this point, plant me firmly back in any of it.
I never did any of it that I did, with a mindset towards compensation. I didn't ask for any, and none ever came.
But a sure fire way to get a *kid* (legally an adult, but still, to me, a kid) in your corner. Pay them. Especially a kid, who still lives at home, because she doesn't make enough $, to move out, which is what she wants more than anything in the world, to be on her own and not living with mommy and daddy.
No, .. what SIL can throw her way is in no way going to make it so she can move out, and she's not stupid, she knows that.
But sure, .. any "kid" her age, throw money at the problem, .. they will more than likely step up to bat.
So, yes, .. perhaps it was done with nothing more in mind than shear gratitude, ..
But that's not how it was read by me. I see an ulterior motive in it.
All I said to YD, .... "well that was nice of her, .. you'll have to thank her for recognizing your sweet efforts with your g'ma .. but do . .like I told you .. be very careful, you do remember .. I'm sure .. how you were called to that scene time and time again .. to the tune that your days off were spent in geriatric need .. and you were growing weary of it, .. be very careful ... it will swallow you up, the need".
I'm waiting, with baited breath, at this point, .. what will the "valid argument" be that SIL presents as to why this isn't necessary. I think, SIL .. has been quite okay with "managing from afar" .. sans the trips here every few months where she works like an absolute race-horse.
I fully expect there will be some *valid* argument presented, from that corner, as to why this isn't a good idea and that we need to leave mother "status quo". I expect it.
I haven't put in a call to SIL with a whole mantra of "SEE! This is what I've said all along here, .. and EVEN SHE SEES it now!". Fully expecting there will be some pushback from that corner. And I can't deal with that, nor should I have to. It's between she and her brother.
I know this morning when DH shared that tidbit with me .. I asked him what were his sister's thoughts. He then jumped and said to himself *oh yea, .. I meant to get ahold of her, let me text her right now and ask her to call me later*.
I don't know if she's done so, at this point, . .and what that result might've been.
SIL lives in IL.
I have no idea what their rules are there, as to Medicaid funding for facilities.
SIL, who can uncover every stone in every corner, will now have to take that ball and run with it, .. as to what/how/where, etc. (but again, I'm betting ... she will have what she considers a valid argument why this isn't necessary).
I think that's, at least in part, why I haven't called MIL with my sentiments .. nor SIL. I expect there will be some *other* side to the whole scenario.
If it looks as though "i's" are getting dotted, and "t's" crossed .. then I will offer to assist in some way .. as things progress. But no, I'm not hopping into it all, to begin to sort through how one dispenses with a reverse mortgaged house and yet finding a way to get funding via Medicaid and where that might be, and so forth. Not getting into all of it, that's for her offspring to sort through and we know DH .. he remains on the periphery, firmly entrenched there.
I do think, if it's at all doable, .. where SIL lives is best. She is retired .. she has the time to do the extra things that MIL will need, .. provided all things fall into place somewhere in all this mess. I think where she lives, is better, as opposed to here. There is nothing tying her to staying here. It's not at all like she has other family here, other than her son (who is on the periphery always) .. and myself, .. and our daughters .. who, I've explained, are otherwise occupied with their own lives. That's all she has here. In the entire state. It's not like she's entrenched here because of her friends or her church. Not at all.
I am waiting for the other shoe to drop here, .. that's all I can say at this point.
And yes, it's going to be a huge mess to sort through.
I hope that Dorker and H won't be expected to contribute thousands of dollars per month for Narcissa's AL stay!
Good News!
Proceed carefully. I do agree with some of the others about getting involved or doing ALL of the packing MIL up for the move...even being directed by MIL.
There will be questions during the unpack weeks, months later...Where's this? What happened to that? I would have liked to have had this or that!
I too am letting my experience sway me here. The question after question! If you aren't prepared to tell everyone "you sent me in to do the job, I did it so shut the he!! up. You guys were too busy to participate remember?" Then don't get involved,
Dorker, let it go. Out of your hands. There’s a lot of work ahead - don’t get roped in. DH can do this last thing for her even if he has to put his church on hold.
Let them hire a moving company to pack as well. The kids need to go through the sentimental items to be divided up.
You got what you wanted, she needs supervised care.
I’m afraid when they find out the price of AL she will chicken out.
My mother said "maybe it's time..." and I had a two bedroom apartment in IL on hold for them within an hour! It was a place where my dads brother and his wife were living - so that helped streamline the search.
But the thing was - both my parents were fresh off of rehab stays. I knew that as soon as they were feeling better - dug back into a house they could no longer manage or be safe in - they would change their minds.
Dorker, many a slip twixt cup and lip as my mother quoted. Why are you supposed to talk with MIL about her decision? Your DH is trying to reel you back in, m'dear. Are you interested in packing? I think that MIL finally hit the "I can't do it wall" when you backed off leaving her with uninvolved DH and your daughter was unavailable to take over 24/7 duties. If MIL means it, she should discuss with the people responsible for making it happen and it should NOT be you leading the way, because it has been proven that you will not be listened to - the decision is only Narcissa - and she can change her mind just as easily. I'm ready, not ready, need landscaping, don't want to hire, blah-blah. Now all those AL's that are contacting SIL can be brought on board. I would not recommend how to conduct the move at all - you will be brought into the review of beloved items and the inability to get rid of any and the packing and ....Let SIL and MIL and DH review and decide. "I'm so glad you decided to relocate and relieve your stress about your day to day life. I'm sure that your children DH and SIL will be very relieved and happy to help you organize it. My daughter and the twins and the 4 year old have kept me so busy, that I'm sure it will be a relief to have access to the daily help you need. Hay, did you see the latest episode of About Us? How do you think Jack died?"
MIL will get better care. Plus, I think this speaks well for her cognitive abilities- that she is still able to reason and make smart - difficult - but smart choices.
My only word of caution would be that SIL "strike while the iron is hot" and all that. Before MIL can change her mind.
This might mean you are going to need to step back up - in a different capacity to help move things quickly in the desired direction - 1000k away. But it would be in your best interest to do so.
I would not be surprised if this comes as bad news for SIL as she may have been hoping to manage from afar for a long time to come. SIL may through up road blocks and/or drag her feet. Don't let her - even if it means you have to take the lead. The end result is what matters here.
And don't worry about AL not being enough - that NH care would be better. That will run its course if that's the situation - but AFTER MIL is in SILs backyard, not yours.
Do try to talk to MIL as soon as possible- some positive affirmation would probably help mil feel more confident about this decision. Less likely to back out.
MIL has requested that her daughter find her an AL where she lives, 1K miles away.
Could knock me over with a feather at this point.
Just wow!
This all came to light, this morning .. talking to DH. He'd called his mom yesterday, as he does most days .. has his phone set to remind him to ck on his mom at noon daily. When he called her for his usual ck in .. that's when she told him that she has made a decision and has talked to her daughter about it, and that her decision isn't hasty .. it's one that she has thought out. But that things .... everything ... is just such a struggle for her, and the time has come that she needs AL. Telling DH that it's a struggle for her to get dressed daily, it's a struggle .. just everything, .. all of it, struggle to even get up to go to the bathroom (I do realize, .. but didn't say it ... AL may be .. it may be more like SNF for her ... but I didn't say that).
She told DH that she'd made her way to the doc the other day (I don't know, I've been out of the loop on it all, thankfully) ... the PCP .. having ordered her for numerous tests, etc .. (don't know, DH doesn't either .. but not surprising). I'm supposing some of this was perhaps testing as to the constant fluid build up, .. maybe that issue where there was shortness of breath .. (which does continue) .. who knows. Said, she'd made her way to the PCP the other day .. and was there, had hobbled/stumbled her way in to the doc's office, sitting in the waiting room. Said that it hit her .. as she struggled so with all of it, .. she doesn't even want to do all these tests and so forth .. and that she's done with it. She told DH she went to the receptionist there at the doc's office and told them to have the doc call her, that she isn't staying for her appointment and in fact, isn't going to come back for any more of these appointments, .. that she has made a decision to go into AL .. and to forgo all this testing/procedures/appointments, etc, .. and told DH she then stumbled her way out of there, back out and left .. and came home and then told DH's sister this .. and then told DH, yesterday.
DH is sad ... but relieved.
He's grateful that it's a decision SHE is making .. not one forced upon her. He wishes so, for her, that the big cloud would come get her before it comes to that .. for her sake, .. but realizes that if this is the course the thing needs to take, then that's what is needed. Saddens him, .. that his mom will be 1K miles away. That's not anything he's ever had to deal with. She's always been right up the road about 10 mins away. Saddens him for her, as he knows .. that's nothing she ever wanted her life to come to. But realizes that it's necessary ..she can't manage alone anymore.
She told DH that she does not want to go live with daughter there .. that daughter has her own cross to bear in her husband's care and well being and she doesn't want to be one more problem sitting there for her daughter to have to run circles around.
I only touched on, very briefly .. that she may need more than AL ... at this point. I only touched on, .. oh this won't be a matter that she is squared away in a facility next weekend, .. there is a reverse mortgage on her home .. there are a LOT LOT LOT of loose ends that have to be seen to, .. and a LOT LOT LOT that will have to be done .. to get it all figured out as to funding her ability to be in a supervised setting.
I didn't belabor it .. he wouldn't be the one on that issue anyway, it would be SIL .. so why lay all that at his feet.
I am just astounded. I had just begun to get on the page that this is what life will be, going forward .. SIL from afar, .. directing, micro-managing .. all that is life here .. absent my presence/participation in it, .. and it's going to get really ugly/sticky/messy .. because it's apparent this isn't going to happen until she has some major calamity befall her and there is no other choice at all.
DH said, "So .. you can call mom later this morning and let her know that I told you of her decision and talk to her".
I haven't done so yet and it may be a few days before I do. I need some time myself to wrap my brain around it all.
We faced a similar problem to you when my MIL was failing, and falling down regularly with calls to 911 to help her get up. Also severe swelling in the legs which in her case was the result of her liver failing. Also with a little dog that was her everything. And like you I backed off and had to let my husband and his siblings do the best they could. And they did try, but their mom was so stubborn that nothing would make her budge. And she refused to go to the hospital. She was mentally competent, so we just had to wait for something to happen. I guess that is where you are at.
In her case her kidneys gave up and she refused dialysis. I think she lived a little over 3 weeks after that.
With hoarders, we have to accept that no matter what we do to "help" they go right back to living in squalor. I think that *stubborn* old folks who are mentally competent are the same way. I've seen lots of old ladies refuse to go to a home, and merely ride the merry go round of hospital-rehab-home. It's a boundary they set. Until they are incompetent, they call the shots. Only when they are beyond the ability to refuse can something meaningful occur in their care. There's simply no point in opposing them. Maybe DH and SIL realize this already.
But I don't know of anyone that is doing that for her, so she must be doing that .. all by herself. I presume.
Dorker, Narcissa and my mother do have some things in common. One thing my mother does, though, is to take her meds correctly. I dread the day when she can't do that. Then again, it won't be me counting out and giving her the pills...
CTTN55: I'm so sorry to hear about the loss of your child. Like BB, I can't imagine how one ever weathers that kind of storm.
It does indeed sound as though your mom and MIL here on this end, cut from the same cloth. I never understood (maybe managed care dictates some of these things), .. why when we're back in the doc again, .. yet again .. for the millionth time, with symptoms of failure to manage that diuretic, it seemed like there'd be the repeated cautions and admonishment .. but never a question, "so tell me about your day .. why is it that you can't adequately take this medication and what do we need to do here, because it simply is not an option that you continue to refuse that as well as compression hose .. that isn't an option .. tell me, who do you have to help you manage these things on a daily basis".
The above dialogue never transpired. Maybe, like I said, managed care being what it is these days, docs don't have time to get into the touchy feely end of things .. and it's a matter that they'd rather see the patient again in about 4 to 6 weeks when the problems keep re-occurring, rather than have this one office visit turn into an exorbitantly long one as they sit and discuss the various aspects of her failure to manage and what she needs to consider in lieu of her failure to do so .
And great points you both made. To "force" the issue of more supervised care, it's a situation that all have to be on the same page. Barb's situation, seemed everyone was on that page. That's fortunate. Very!
It can get very messy and ugly when all are not. But good for you CTTN55, that you have your boundaries firmly in place.
I am currently watching one of my dear friends attempt to cope with her mom who continues to live independently with 24/7 aides. This mom, who has dementia, shows up at the ER several times a month, claiming that she's dying. She fires aides kind of willy-nilly, not realizing that she's gotten on the agency "list" for being difficult. My friend, who is in her early 70s and still working part time is starting to wear down. Badly.
CTTN, I'm so sorry for the loss of your child. I don't know how one ever gets beyond that grief. My grandma lost a baby who was 3 months old, when she was in her 20's. She still talked about that baby when she was in her 90's with great sadness and grief.
Be well, my friend.
In some ways, my mother is like Dorker's MIL. A neurologist noted my mother's many anxieties, but she wouldn't hear of going to a psychiatrist or taking any meds for it. (And her regular doctor -- had her for just a year now, as the medical monopoly here is a revolving door for doctors -- said she didn't like those kinds of meds for her older patients.)
My mother's "independence" is only affecting MY life, since my brothers live out of state. Two of the three were here last week, and got a glimpse into my mother's life. Of course, they want her in AL, but like Dorker's H and SIL, won't go against their mother.
No one wants to go up against my mother. So I guess maybe we're not fully functional. She is deemed mentally competent, so she will continue steering the ship until a crisis occurs.
(I refuse to take the lead in attempting to change her mindset, even though I'm the local one. I am not pushing AL for her, either, so I will not be the one to be blamed if she doesn't like it. As I've told my brothers many times now: 1. I will not stay with my mother or have her stay with me, even if she's recovering from an illness, injury, or surgery. I did that once, and because of the way I was treated, I will not do it again. 2. I do NOT want to be her caregiver, and have started suggesting that when she does end up in AL or a SNF, that she be near one of THEM and not me. I realize that I sound like a selfish uncaring person, but I lost a child suddenly 6.5 years ago, and I do NOT have the mental stamina/patience to put up with my mother. And I'm not going to psychobabblers and taking drugs to do so.)
There was also a big difference in the perception of mom's "regular" doctor who had known her for 30 years, and a new geriatrics doctor. New geriatrics guy (older man himself) immediately picked up on my mom's overwhelming anxiety and got her to a geriatric psychiatrist. Who immediately picked up on mom's cognitive problems and got us to get those worked up.
Either mom's regular doc just didn't notice that mom was different, or he didn't think it mattered.
In any case, when mom's "independence" impinged on our careers and family lives, we told mom things had to change. Fortunately, my bothers and I saw and see things in the same light and we told mom she had to go to a facility for the Fall and Winter storm season. By Spring, she was having a great time and wanted to stay where she was, in Independent Living.
It takes backbone to do this, and the knowledge that you are doing the "right" thing, not the thing your parent "wants". It also means not caring much if your parent blusters and gets mad at you, which is kinda sorta the mark of a fully functional adult, in my book.
I agree with you to not notify MIL's doctors about her living situation. As you realize, that is her children's place to do that. And they both appear to be satisfied with the status quo (precarious and unsafe as it is).
My mother (age 91) is really slowing down. Back in February, her doctor asked me if I thought she should be living alone. Shortly thereafter, my mother forbade me from coming back into the examining room with her. One of my brothers was down here and took my mother to her annual physical last week. He got to meet the doctor. Apparently she didn't ask any such questions of him. My mother bragged that the doctor said she was doing great and that she was healthier than people younger than she is. Okayyyy.....so no the doctor is not noticing the increasing mental fuzziness, the even more precarious balance issues, the increasing hearing loss? That must have been a heck of a showtiming performance by my mother!
I asked my mother if she was interested in a tub-to-shower conversion. "Oh, I won't be here long enough to make it worthwhile!" she said. So I said that whether or not she did it might affect just how long she was able to live in her condo. (My mother has told me that she has trouble stepping over the bathtub edge because she can't feel her feet. She needs someone to monitor her showers. She refuses to hire anyone, and I will not be her shower attendant.)
I think Narcissa and my mother are both fooling their doctors.
SIL's frenetic long-distance delegation and activity. DH's fire-fighting.
Their positive good intention is to support their mother in her wishes. That is not in itself a bad thing. MIL's wishes are to remain in her own home and "manage somehow." Well, now. You have recognised that MIL's managing somehow has passed the point where it is possible for the family to sustain it, and you have respectfully withdrawn. Quite right too. But SIL and DH have yet to come to that conclusion; and you must just leave them to arrive at it in their own good time.
I note from skimming through pages that MIL's diuretic is still not under control. Heigh-ho. If she won't comply with instructions on this, and QED she won't, then she will become increasingly immobile, she will fall and she will be back in hospital. It's a vicious circle - she has fluid overload, she is fatigued and her brain is undersupplied with oxygen, she becomes increasingly inactive and confused, she can't take her meds, her fluid imbalance gets worse. You know this has all been explained to her, she thinks she knows better because she doesn't want to have to get up to go to the bathroom because she's tired, so she's non-compliant and she will get worse. If someone were physically on the scene 24/7 they would hand her her meds as prescribed, she would take them, she would be doing better. But that is *still* up to her, and it's not what she wants.
So the worst struggle you'll have will be not saying "told you so." Time moves on, and these things will come to pass, and they won't be your fault and, actually, when you think about it with detachment (and with love), they won't be such a tragedy either. MIL has had a long and busy life and her family is managing the tail end of it as well as they can according to her wishes. Let them. It's fine.
Of course it's true that a more forceful approach could winkle MIL out of her home and into long term care where her medical needs could be got in hand and she could be made to live longer. But if it's not what she wants, what's the point?
It's an enigma that I'll likely never wrap my brain around. Yes, DH could . .. if he cared to do so .. put in a phone call to the doc .. have a conversation .. if nothing else .. get the doc's take on it all, rather than push all this to the periphery and not address it. He could also, not for all of them .. but ... at least some of the time, work his schedule around accommodating some doc visits .. in the interest of being engaged/entrenched in it all, it's HIS mom.
I watch him .. he works terribly hard, labor intensive work ... and so he's tired. He is also VERY (overly) involved in our struggling church. As is the case with any church, there are the *do-ers* those that show up when there are things to be done .. and the *pew sitters* (those that are only there on Sunday mornings for the sermon .. and you never see them outside of that setting). DH would be of the former, rather than the latter.
I could list here all the fingers he has in all the pies there, .. but it would be pointless. Suffice it to say .. that takes up a good deal of his time/energies.
His choice to make. Obviously he gleans some satisfaction in his various roles there. That's commendable, .. but ... he also has an ailing mother that he fails to engage in that whole scene and that is not so commendable.
I won't bore anyone with the details .. but it's a church that has seen it's share of turmoil over the last few years .. and in that ... has lost all but a fraction of what were formerly members there. The "do-ers" left behind .. few and far between. That puts the burden on those that are "do-ers" to an even greater degree.
Yes, I have .. as I struggle with watching his commitments there, ever increasing ... (but obviously he gleans satisfaction and enjoyment in it, or he wouldn't do it) .. I've tried to get him to see that it's taking an inordinate amount of his time to prop up what is a broken situation there and we should perhaps consider going to a church where he doesn't have to be so hands on. To no avail. He fervently doesn't want to be one, like so many others, who exited and left the few remaining there ... he doesn't want that to be his story there. It takes up a LOT of his time. A lot. Obviously, .. that's what he "chooses" to do ... nobody is making him.
It's not lost on me, I do watch it all .. and scratch my head. I've said to him, 'ya know I watch how much energy and time that church takes .. and I also watch your mother who needs you ... and you are too tired, or otherwise committed ... that's out of balance, you need to work on removing yourself from some of the need there at church and getting more onto the page of what your mom needs".
The answer I generally get ... something along the lines of, "if mom needs me, I fit it in . I go out there and ck on her, I call her .. if she needs something and asks me, I go do it".
He's right. He does. Does he take it a step further in a whole picture of .."now ma, what's your doc's phone #, I think I just want to get a feel for what their thoughts are and where you are as far as being treated by them, and get on that page and see if there's anything that needs my attention".
Never. Why? I can't really answer it. It's an enigma that I'll never have an answer to.
Is it easier to push it all to the periphery and not address it head-on .. because to do so .. you might learn that things are far graver than what you'd like them to be, and so now you're going to have to take some unpopular action. Looks that way, doesn't it. But I don't want to think the worst of him .. so I back up out of it, and don't push it. It's his mom .. if he wants to take that approach .. so be it.
Is it that he sees .... it will do no good. Mother isn't going to follow through .. that's been apparent all along .. but she's also not going to do anything differently, no matter what I say .. so why am I going to waste my time ... I can go and serve in my church and deal with people who make sense and problems that have resolution .. that's more rewarding anyway.
Perhaps .. I really don't know.
SIL ... I can say on her behalf she is dug in, up to her eyeballs on it all. She doesn't "ignore" any of it. She is forever on the phone with some entity, be it MOW .. be it a doc office, a social service agency, the housekeeper .. a neighbor of MIL's ... she is forever "micro-managing" from afar .. only to come here every few months and run like a house afire ... at managing it all.
Why won't she do the other one thing that needs to happen ... get firm with her mom, that this isn't manageable any longer .. and insist that her mom do things a different way?
I don't know.
I guess .. to do so ... would mean that she'd have to then try to figure that she has to get her mom to her home .. 1K miles away and manage her there ... or ... insist that she go to AL or NH (a fight that would not be winnable).
Does she do all that she does, her finger in so many pies in this direction, managing from afar .. so that she can honor her mom's wishes to leave her in her home .. and allow her mom that latitude, does that keep her warm and cozy at night ... ??.....
Or is it because, to do otherwise .. would mean some tough, unpopular, contentious choices. I don't know.
To me, .. (though I'm probably being more cynical than is necessary in it all) it does appear that SIL doesn't want to face down having to make some tough choices and some stern discussion with her mom. She would cloak that, we've talked about it, .. not in her mother's anger and animosity .. it would be cloaked more in, .. not wanting to make her sad in her final days .. here on earth .. wanting her mother to be happy .. as happy as she can be in her waning years and poor health.
I don't talk to SIL any longer, not nearly as frequently as was the case previously. We talked the other day via text, .. her just imparting to me that her daughter in law's dad needs prayer, .. was hit while riding his bicycle .. hit by a car, and has some serious injuries as a result, .. and then us talking about the mass shooting in LV. But nothing about MIL. When we did talk, .. and MIL the topic .. it was apparent it's a lot for her to manage from afar .. she's said so, more than once. But obviously, as is the case with DH's story above .... it works for her .. for whatever reason. Because, obviously, she doesn't choose to do otherwise.
It's very much a situation in watching it all, .. with the two offspring .. I have to very much set my mind in the direction of .. "they both are choosing their paths in it all .. and for whatever their reasons .. and for me to question the motives and otherwise .. is fruitless .. so be it, it's nothing I can really put my finger on, as to the why's/how's of it all.
To me, it's hard not to see it as a scenario where they both just wish that the cloud would come get her sooner rather than later .. and they will just continue their status quo, SIL hopping in every direction with mindless micro-management, .. DH with his other *busyness* that keeps him on the periphery of it all. But to see it as the above, causes in me, a feeling of .. "gee, I sure don't respect either of these individuals as much as I used to*. But that is maybe unfair (maybe even unfounded) to them, it's their mom .. not mine .. and their decision/choice, not mine.
SIL has her mindset of how things should go "She'll be fine, she'll manage, she's doing well".
It suits her agenda for whatever's at the root of that agenda. That's been apparent through all of this, for quite some time.
I could phone the doc office, or go there and talk with them. And even provide them, in writing, a list of my concerns.
They would then, .. maybe even request to see her, to talk with her, .. then mention to her, that her DIL had come by and left a list of concerns that they weren't aware of, but now they too, are gravely concerned.
MIL would then, more than likely, squelch it all by saying "Oh my housekeeper helps me, she comes and brings me to doctors and checks on me (not true), my neighbors, I have some really great neighbors and they check on me (only true to a small extent), my son .. I'm in regular contact with him and if I need him, he helps me".
You get the gist. She'd minimize the above and justify her state of being. SIL would do much the same, if approached by them.
All yet one more exercise in futility, on my part. I sent that form in to the DMV .. and .. (exercise in futility) .. haven't heard a thing. Do they toss them into the trash?
It's sort of like, it comes down to .. them against me, almost. Them vs me. Over here, we have me, who has hopped up and down .. trying to get attention to the problem .. and all for naught. I'm not going to "fight" them any longer, nor try to persuade them, but I'm also not going to keep banging my head against the brick wall either, in pursuit of trying to be a part of making it something it can't/won't be.
MIL has made her choices .. and the assumption is that she is of sound mind to do so. Neither of her offspring will do the work necessary to determine whether her brain is working as it should. Don't care enough to do so ...??.....maybe if they did do so ...??....and found that *oh geeze, she really isn't firing on all cylinders here .. we may really have to take a different course of action here*. I don't know what's at the root of the refusal to look at that piece of it, a little closer. But they won't. They both allow that the status quo continue.
SIL with her, "well it's a problem to manage it all, takes up a lot of my time .. but she's my mom and I love her and I'll do the best I can for her .. and she wants to stay in her home and not have to leave, so we're going to try to let her do that".
Husband with his: "She's just fiercely independent and a fighter .. she doesn't want to have to leave her home .. she doesn't want to go to sister's ... she REALLY doesn't want to go to AL or a NH .. she wants to stay in her home .. and so we're going to let her do so, as long as we possibly can".
Sadly, .. neither have taken the time or energy to sit down with medical professionals and paint a clear picture of what that looks like, on the ground, in real time, absent the presence of any 24/7 care .. neither have done so, and consulted with med professionals on seeking their input. And they won't be doing so.
There's nothing I can say or do that's going to change the course of it all.
But we all have to deal with the ramifications of our decisions. I am stepping out of the line of fire on decisions, I didn't make. Period.
I swear, I liken it all to about the same situation when you have a school child. School child keeps forgetting their lunch at home, or their homework. They phone home, "will you please bring __________ to me at school, I forgot it". You do that about 4 or 5 times and then you realize .. ya know this isn't my responsibility .. you aren't 3 years old .. you keep forgetting these things .. guess what .. you are now going to go hungry at lunch time .. a few times and maybe you will find a system that helps you remember to grab that lunch on your way out the door, ... or you get a zero for not bringing in your homework assignment .. a few times of that, after you've taken the time to do the assignment, but gotten no credit for doing so, because you *CHOOSE* to keep forgetting it at home.
Natural consequences.
The same with the situation with MIL.
I knew what it was taking to keep all those plates spinning in the air (when SIL isn't in town to do so). I knew .. it was becoming unmanageable. And said so. It was met with, time and time again, .. SIL on one of her routine visits here, then buttoning it all down .... while here. And yes, .. things would smooth to an even keel in SIL's presence in town. That's because the meds were being seen to, follow up doc visits, .. SIL right there to prod her along and get her in the car and there .. and SIL there to let the dog in and out repeatedly .. so MIL not as worn to a nub ... SIL there to make sure nutrition was seen to, hydration, etc ..
If I had a nickel for every time she'd leave again, assuring she's fine, .. she knows what she needs to do, she's doing well. And my responding to that, "of course she's fine, ... look what it takes for her to be fine .. you here, on site, .. and 24/7 care".
The same broken record that kept repeating over and over. And SIL with the mantra: "I know, .. I wish she'd come stay with me some, I can't be here all the time".
The same conversations over and over and over and over!
They have all made their choices, as have I. I'm not going to keep bringing the homework assignments in .. and the forgotten lunch. The messiness that ensues .. also not mine to manage in the "natural consequences" they should experience as a result of their choices/decisions.
I hate to keep beating the same drum beat. But .. look no further than the story of when the dog was sick, .. back months before I threw in the towel on it all. The dog crapping everywhere and peeing everywhere in her house. Her unable to get up and get him out quick enough. Me, asserting she needs to isolate the dog more .. at least keep the dog cordoned off in the tiled areas of your home .. and don't let him mess up the carpet, keep him outside more than would be normal for him. Not permanently, .. just until you can get this illness resolved.
Well you'd of thought I'd asked her to go chop his head off and put it on a platter. That was a request that was just outlandishly ridiculous and not going to happen.
The results of the above, DH over there 2 x's, steam cleaning her carpet and ultimately a professional brought in to do so .. and .. MIL now so weakened from having to get up through the night .. repeatedly night after night, with a dog needing to go out .. and her unable to go another step .. and my having to take the reigns in the dogcare.
It's not enough that I'm having to see to MIL .. and her needs, now I was having to address her dog's needs.
My having asserted, .. her dog .. for whatever the reasons .. and this is nothing anyone ever trained her dog to do .. her dog has been known to go relieve himself in her master shower .. not something he does routinely .. but he will ... on occasion go do so .. and so my having asserted, .. at night ... rather than put him in your bed, cordon him off in your shower, make him a pallet . but put him in there, .. at least it's not a matter you are having to get up and get to the alarm system repeatedly in the middle of the night to let him out .. and then have an accident to clean up on the carpet .. when you can't get it all done and get him out fast enough.
Nope, that too, met with a big HARUMPH and a "I could never do that to him, he wouldn't understand".
Going, in the above, .. at SIL's direction from afar, to get doggie diapers. Doggie diapers I knew would be useless .. as her arthritic hands wouldn't be able to manage that situation .. and she wouldn't use them. Argued the point, .. lost .. at her nibbling away in argument on it, .. off to the store I went, for doggie diapers, .. that .. in the end, .. as I said it would be, useless. Never used.
The above .. SIL also trying to command that I bring over the child-baby-gate thing .. a child-gate thing that wouldn't stretch the width of what it needs in order to be any kind of suitable barrier .. my argument to that being one of .. she has a utility room let's put him in there and put the child gate up .. it does fit the width of the doorway there and will be a true barrier .. he can't get past it, that area is tiled .. if he messes it up .. at least she can clean up tile, rather than carpet. That too, a resounding no .. along with "oh he would never understand why he's now trapped in there and can't come out.
The above exercise in futility completely encapsulates and shows .. the pattern of it all. Absolute refusal to do what SHOULD and CAN be done to deal with a situation .. but refused. It's the pervasive pattern throughout the whole thing ...
So .. the ramifications of the choices you guys make .. so be it .. not on me to pick up the pieces of it all. That simple. Painful .. but not my circus, not my monkeys.
The brother in law who went no contact was kinder than this, in some way.