I've posted before about in-law care-giving. Aged mother in law, lives in same town.
We are at the tail end of a visit from sister in law from several states away. Sister in law has been here for 3 weeks caring for her mother. A much welcome respite.
It had been discussed, prior to her arrival here on the scene, she would be talking it over with her mother, to try and get her mom to come up to her home, for a stay of maybe a few months.
This, in my opinion, is absolutely essential, as I am expecting twin grand-children, due in about 1 month (if they don't come sooner, as is the case a lot of times with multiples pregnancies). The expectant mother also lives locally here, and has a 4 year old daughter. I will be on that front, helping .. as much as is needed. And not on the front with mother in law and care-giving, and have made that as obvious and apparent as I know how to make it. It would be great if mother in law would agree to go to her daughter's home (several states away) for a period of a few months .. and allow me the latitude to put my energies where I want them to be, on my daughter who will have had a c-section .. and my grand-daughter (4 years old) and new twin babies.
Nothing doing. Mother in law has dug in her heels, and will not hear of it, going to stay with her daughter for any period of time.
What are her reasons?
In mother in law's defense ... her daughter ... I don't even know how to describe it. I will say that when her daughter comes here to visit, she all but breathes for her mother and if she could find a way to do that, she'd do that too. She is the most nervous nelly, never sit down - ever ... worry wart, do everything, all the time .. person that I've ever encountered.
A great example, as I was taking her to the airport yesterday for her departure, . I reached into the fridge to grab myself a bottled water and shut the fridge and turned to walk away, as I've done for all of my 50 plus years living on this earth .. and she said to me, "Oh make sure that fridge shut". WTH???? Like I don't know how to shut a fridge? That's just a small, very small slice of what she is ... how she is.
She is so very hyper-vigilant, seeing to every minute details down to it's finest most minuscule point, fine tooth comb, questioning every point along the way, "should we do thus and so, but maybe if we do thus and so, then such and such will happen, maybe we should do it thus and so .. but then so and so might happen, maybe we shouldn't do thus and so, but do "x" "y" and "z" instead, but if we don't do it that way then ..........", on and on and on and on it goes. And usually in hyper warp speed, as to every single friggin thing.
If her mother moans .. "what's wrong mother?, why did you moan, are you alright?".
Mother: "Yes, I'm fine, I was just sighing out loud".
Sister: "Why did you sigh? Are you hurting, are you sure you're alright, why are you sighing what's the matter?"
Mother: "For God's sake __________________, I was just sighing, .. calm down, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, .. because if something is wrong you need to tell me".
Mother: "Everything is fine, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, we did a lot yesterday, did we do too much, maybe we shouldn't of gone to two doctors in one day .. was that too much for you, are you too tired now, maybe we need to move those other doctor appointments so we won't have two in one day, is that too much for you, for one day .. is that why you were sighing .. what's wrong, are you sure you're alright".
Hopefully that kinda gives a little bit of a snapshot of what goes on when sister is in the ring directing things.
So in mother in law's defense.. I do get it, why she wouldn't be chomping at the bit to go to her daughter's home.
BUT ....
The only experience she has with her daughter, in the last years as mother in law has aged and been unable to go anywhere much, has been the daughter coming here, periodically, for periods of about 3 weeks at a stretch. When her daughter comes here, she moves heaven and earth for her mother and then some, and doesn't sit down, doesn't stop .. the WHOLE ENTIRE TIME.
Is there a possibility maybe (as I said to mother in law, when she expressed that isn't happening - talking to me - her going to her daughters .. ever) .. could it be possible that maybe if you would go to where she lives .. she'd be more busy managing her own life in that setting than your's and she would get out of your backside .. and not be as hyper-drive-vigilant as you experience in her, when she's here, could that be possible.
The daughter is retired, lives several states away. Does come here, generally, every few months .. and stays for a period of about 3 weeks at a stretch. I wish I could make a list of everything the daughter did when here this last time, but it would take up the whole character allotment:
For goodness sake, please stop serving as the go between your husband and his sister. I did that a few times with my husband before recognizing that I got the brunt of his frustration with the to-do list.
Suggestions:
"You'll have to call your brother about that."
"You'll have to ask your sister about that."
"You'll have to ask your son about that."
"You'll have to call your mother and discuss that with her."
Get out of sandwich.
MIL was in the b'ground .. but she's not the one that said the above.
Just old people being old people, the following dialogue then occurred between me and MIL:
MIL: So have you heard from your kids on vacation, how are they doing?".
ME: I haven't no .. I guess they're having fun, I haven't heard from them.
MIL: Do you know if they've gotten to enjoy the g'mother on that end.
ME: (uhm.. didn't I just say I haven't heard from them), repeating now, "I don't know, I haven't talked to them".
MIL: Oh, well that daughter of yours .. she'll call ya when she needs something, you can bet on that, you won't hear from her til she needs you for something.
(that was particularly snarky). But oh well, old folks!
No, as to spending our $ to upgrade a home that goes back to the bank, won't happen. But will DH be roped into .. "the shower needs to be made ADA compliant so mother can use it" (he is quite handy and can fix A LOT OF STUFF) he could probably do it ... but whoa .. what backbreaking expensive work, .. and for what .. just to turn it over to the bank. Or will DH see it as the latter .. "WTH??!!!, no .. no we're not doing that". I don't know. I wouldn't take bets either way, honestly.
And Kimber: GOOD FOR YOU GUYS for both being on the same page with it all, and refusing to spend $2k to fly there and work like slaves. GOOD FOR YOU!
It's quite clear that you Love your Husband, your MIL, and your SIL. Or you would never have done All you have done for as long as you've done. And you would never have reached out to this wise community for advice.
It's quite clear that your SIL is behind all of this family triangulation, whether she is just an unstoppable busy body with too much time on her hands, or that this is the Only way she can show her Mom that she cares about her from 1000 miles away, and of course you've made it clear that she Loves her Mom. Also, didn't you say that she is a SW? Well that absolutely floors me, as she cannot seem to get out of her own way, to see the writing on the wall, that her Mother needs an Elevated level of Care Now! Unless she Wants to take her to live with her, so that she can do everything but breathe and poop for her, as far as SW's go, She's Fired!
It's So clear that your MIL is a Complete Narcissist, who get a kick out of running you all ragged! And I do believe her when she says she has nothing to say to her daughter, when her daughter calls checking on her 3-4 times a day, and she cannot help herself but to tell her those things she needs and wants, without coming directly to you and your husband who are close by. She's an aging Narcissist, and they Only ever get worse as their health declines. It's the SIL, who is the one making things all the more difficult, as I see it, and it is also a long standing family dynamic in this family to run this triangulation scenario, and you've been the one who has been drug into the middle of this situation because you care, but also out of sister and brothers lack of a backbone and setting her straightand convincing her what is the right thing to do. It's time for them to step up, set her straight, and get her into a safe and secure living situation, whether that be With her daughter, or in a Senior Assisted living place or Nursing home, if she is that bad off.
It's so clear that your Dh must continue to maintain his job to provide for your family now, and to finance a healthy retirement for you both going forward, and he cannot be all places at all times and run his business, running circles around his Mother, so the hard decisions need to be made Now, as to her care going forward (and most definitely Not You doing it!), and take all of this Stress out out of the equation, not that it All Ever completely goes away, but it can certainly be alleviated one hell of a lot, and it would be best for everyone involved, most definitely their Mother!
It's So Clear, that you are Fed Up, taking the brunt of all of this triangulation, because you do Love and care for all parties concerned, but that you are now quite burnt out, you wish to be there for your Dd and your Granddaughter and the newborn twins, and your other children too, and that the Main reason why you are wanting to step back is because you know it is no longer safe for your MIL to live safely on her own, and that she is only One small Accident away from a Severe and Potentially Catastrophic Injury, or possibly even Death, and you don't want to be a party to it!
I know that you have been honest in telling your husband and SIL that you absolutely must step back for your own good, your Own families needs and because you don't believe you MIL is making wise decisions about her health and welfare, plus that you don't believe that her children are facing the facts that They are the ones who need to step in, and make those hard decisions for her. But if they were concerned enough, they really would be forcing the issue, as they are simply postponing the inevitable, with likely a catastrophe happening first.
If I were you, I would recommend that you ask your husband to beg his sister into taking her home with her for a while. This way, she would get a real taste of what it's like to be the go and fetch girl LONG TERM as you have been doing, and maybe then, she would see you in a different light. The Burned Out Caregiver, who's had enough and knows that MOM cannot manage on her own safely any longer. She needs to quit blowing smoke up her Mother's Azz, by telling her differently! Because I honestly think she is the main culprit in all of this!
And as for you MIL driving, OMG, how terrifying! She is incapable, flat out, as she can't even manage getting her own walker in and out of the car, let alone that she most certainly does not have the reflexes to react safely in any sort of traffic situation, and could so easily kill herself behind the wheel, or even worse, some unsuspecting family!
Just think of your own Daughter and Grandchildren being killed by an old person, who doesn't know when to hang up the keys! I'd be livid, over this issue alone!
Oh how I wish you would/could print off and hand a copy of this entire thread that you've started, and hand it to your SIL. I've no doubt that this topic has been a bone of contention between you and your hubby, and has been the topic of too many heated arguments, all brought on by your SIL's meddling and caving in to her Mother's rediculous idea that she can safely stay alone in her home, and it's not fair to you, and is so incredibly damaging to your marriage ( I know this because All of my husband's and my Arguments are over my husband's Dad!), when all along You Only Want what is best for your MIL, and all concerned, that and you just want your Life Back! It's completely understandable!
I just feel so bad that you are stuck in the middle of this situation with your husband's family, knowing full well and through no fault of your own, that she is an accident waiting to happen.
We all know how hard it is to get our LO's to face the facts that They now require a higher level of care, you are not alone in this. But you are doing the right thing, in stepping back as much as you can, to help her kids reach the right course of action ASAP. Good Luck Sweetie, I hope that they come to this realization sooner than later!
Someone (not you) should suggest to MIL that keeping a list of what needs to be done is a really good idea. (my mom got another year at least at home by doing that. One list for me, one for brother, one for SIL).
MIL should NOT, repeat, NOT go to live with SIL. She will be the death of her son in law.
She needs a care facility. Near SIL. SIL should be investigating that, as we speak.
She needs more supervision than a bunch of family members can give her. Because she will continue to do "stupid" (read, caused by cognitive impairment) things.
So, someone in this family needs to be planful about this.
Okay, okay, I know, Dorker. It's not going to happen that way. It will be slap-dash, hopeful, etc. And end badly.
Throwing money at home renovations (in MIL's home) is a really bad idea. So don't use YOUR family's money toward that.
I distinctly recall the moment when my mom said "well, we can put a walk in shower in there (her sole first floor bathroom) and get a washer/dryer combo for the DR."
I thought about that for exactly one second and said, "sure, Mom, we'll look into that".
I texted my brother that I thought we should conserve mom's funds for facility care, because those modifications would buy her MAYBE a month or two of being at home.
And my mom had better than 1M in the bank at that point (I didn't know that at the time, but I knew she was quite flush; it still would have been a poor use of her money).
Dorker, I can only say that I agree with your dad; get out of the way and let the "leaders" do what they are determined to do.
If you get roped into any doctors appointments, be sure to ask pointedly "Do you think she'll be able to do that, given her cognitive limitations?" Nothing more than that, no arguing. Just "her cognitive limitations" as fact.
If they ask you what you are talking about, you tell them that her executive functioning is clearly impaired and give examples. (non compliance with meds, walker, confusion while driving). When some one says "UTI" tell them that you observed these problems LONG before UTI situation.
That might actually get her a "real" evaluation.
Good luck, sweetheart. Keep us posted.
They are trying to demand that my DH and I fly out a few times a year to give BIL/SIL a break. Of course WE are supposed to take time off work, our son out of school, and pay for $2,000 in plane tickets to go be their slaves for a week or two. We have said "no - you need to hire people or move somewhere else - where staff will do this" - we have learned not to engage - instead of the circular argument that gets no-where, we say "we've talked about this, we can't do it, nice talking with you, bye" and HANG UP. You are likely going to have learn that for SIL's calls. "We'll do that when we can, bye" or "She'll have to figure that out since she's independent. bye".
Mamadrama is likely to find DH in charge is not the "ring the bell for Cinderella" that she is use to. Maybe she will choose to move in with SIL.
Stay strong. Be nice to your DH - he needs to stay strong too. I love it "i know the d@mn sprinkler head needs to be fixed, but it rains every frikkin' day" - his patience for this chit will be very little. Cheers!
He had lawn duty at church today .. meant he was out of here by about 9 AM .. and when he got there, apparently something wrong with the mower, so spent some time trying to repair that, and to no avail . .so used some other haphazard mower.
Came home spent.
In the b'ground of all this .. at his mother's house.
There is a sprinkler head that is broken and in need of repair (he is aware). They turned off the irrigation system at MIL's house the other day simply because they'd cleaned out some closets there .. and sat outside for p/up by Goodwill or something, multiple bags of clothes they were getting rid of. So they turned off the irrigation system entirely so as to not have those bags of item sitting on the d/w getting drenched.
So now, .. "he needs to come turn this irrigation system back on, we can't figure out how to do it".
Also .... SIL has said that she wants him to clean the gutter out, above the b'door ..
We are to get together with them for dinner t'nite. So he asked me to text and see if we can meet them there at such and such time.
Did so.
SIL called here, on the home phone. "Are you guys just going to meet us there, we need him to come turn on this irrigation system .. I mean he doesn't have to fix the sprinkler head at that point . but we need that turned back on .. I guess .. ??....he's taking me to the airport tomorrow .. maybe he could do it then .. just ck with him .. (he was asleep, wiped out from yard duty at the church).
When he woke up I told him of the above.
Oh the dismay. And the discord begins. My charge, to stay out of the way of that which gives him such grief.
Him with: "I know they need their sprinkler system turned back on! I know that!, .. it rains every frickin day here .. not like the yard is gonna turn into dust over there, for CHRYST'S SAKE, I KNOW! ...................... I'm going over there tomorrow to take her to the airport, .. I'll get there early enough I turn ON THE IRRIGATION SYSTEM FOR THEM".
I didn't even ask, "..............and the uh .. the sprinkler head .. gonna fix that too, while you're there .................and the gutter over the b'door .. gonna get that taken care of before you take her to the airport".
I didn't even ask.
I just walked away ..... saying "takes patience huh", ........and he responded, "There isn't enough of me to go around!".
It hasn't even begun and the chores they begin a'stackin-up.
Now my charge is going to be to not let all that "effect" me. I do agree with him, ..he knows .. I know that he knows ..... but I had simply approached on what time to meet for dinner out and got handed a chore that he needs to see about.
Can't even do something as simple as ask about what time for dinner out and so forth, without somehow "triangling" into a situation and then .. tell him and he expresses his dismay at it all.
And it's only just begun.
Geez, anything goes with those three. Do they even think something won't happen to her again?
Oh boy...
That got put to a halt when Mamadrama said of the above, "I'm just not ready .. I'm not ready to do that".
So then, has it been said, by SIL, "well what we'll do, give me some time to stabilize my husband and his situation and get a handle on that, and then what we'll do, we'll drive down here .. and then we'll go about the steps of shutting down your household MIL . .and transferring mail, .. and we'll make the trek back to my house". Has that been said.
A big whopping Nope.
Has it been said to MIL: "Okay .. well .. maybe you need to start *getting ready* and begin to think along the lines that the above is what happens next".
NOPE
Has it been asked of MIL: "So, ...????......when do you think you might *be ready* to do that?".
NOPE
So, as it appears, your word "indefinite" appears to be the plan here. As to any xfer to go stay with SIL.
Yes, status quo reigns again. Let Mamadrama dictate what the path forward shall be. She isn't compromised, that was the UTI .. that's all clear now.
And there ya have it.
I'll bet your generation (Dorker) has said in conversation more than once, "At least they haven't lost the house." Well here it comes. And it IS emotional -- even if it's not the family homestead.
OTOH, actions and consequences, right? Nearly 800 entries on this thread now -- and that's what they all point to.
That plan shouldn't change to "indefinitely "or "never". What's up with that?
If I had to give MIL a directive it would be for her to make a new list every week for DH to do for her.
I hope you don't get stuck taking her to MD appts.
I bet MIL cancels the home therapy in 2 weeks.
Weather has been great here.
The babies are growing so fast. I'm so glad I can help our daughter.
DH's business is doing well and keeps us both very busy.
I'm having a meal with my parents later this week. I'll tell them you said hi.
I'm getting some doctor and dental appointments out of the way in between visits to the babies.
I'm not sure what DH schedule is today, busy as usual.
I so wanted to tell SIL .. but that's being a smartazz and I won't do it .. "so this is what life is like without having to run a gazillion errands as to geriatric care ... and g'kids that don't live right under your elbow in the same community .. as your life is .. back home .. I kinda like it ... my g'kids gone . out of town on vacation ... MIL buttoned down with your watchful eye .. and I can do as I please to organize and purge some things in my kitchen .. I rather enjoy this, thank you very much!".
As to the home going back to the bank and the emotional issue there. This isn't a home they grew up in. The in-laws bought this home, after the kids were grown and gone .. maybe mid seventies ... and by .. I guess ... ??....early 90's or so .. reverse mortgaged it. Had a HELOC on the home and so the equity one might realize after some odd years of home ownership and payments, not as sizable as it would've otherwise been, due to the HELOC and balance on that note.
So, it's not like there would be as much of an emotional baggage as to ridding of that home, as would be the case if it was the home where they grew up. I would think anyway. Yes, many good memories of family get togethers at this very home .. thru the years, for sure.
Hadn't thought of it that way on the meds and taking them out of order, or whatever. I only presumed she'd not taken them on some days ... never even occurring to me that she is taking some things that don't even need to be taken at that time, or whatever. Interesting point. I bet you're right.
No, I truly do not hate her. Really have no reason to. Frustrated beyond all reason .. absolutely.
I do care very much for these people. As evidenced 15 years ago when this all kinda came about that FIL .. (now deceased) .. began having some problems (had always had HBP and heart disease) . but he began to be kinda .. foggy, mentally .. and so articulating to doctors his symptoms and so forth .. I was put squarely on the front line to accompany him to doc visits (and he willingly went along with it, such a nice, loving man he was). If I didn't care about these people, I'd of long ago been hands-off as to it all. He died, 2003 .. and in 2004 .. MIL had her stroke .. and it's been on, ever since.
I do find . and it will get easier I suspect, .. I have to remind myself .. it does feel a little like the impetuous school kid that wants to run off with their toys .. because the other kids won't play their way. I do have to repeatedly remind myself .. this isn't at all about, "well you guys won't play my way, so I'm leaving!", .. it's about a lot more than that. And repeated self-talk of that reminder.
And of course, here on AC.
What I think is going on with your MIL's answers about when she was taking things etc, is that she had no idea that she had taken them wrong and was covering up. She knows she has the family trained, and the outsiders can see right through her show.
In addition, if she has to move to a facility, the reverse mortgage is payable, and the house will be taken by the bank. SIL wants to believe what mother is telling her like an obedient child, and hates to see the bank take the house as that stirs up another batch of emotions. With OT wanting a different bath set up, it points to the impending need for MIL to move to a facility - and with her needing that reverse mortgage, it's going to be a Medicaid facility. Not the nicest in the world. I can see why SIL is dragging her feet.
At the same time, her lack of desire to get the problems fixed is directly affecting your husband's relationships and work and your MIL's safety.
Remember that you "being stuborn" is really being stubborn for the sake of your MIL - not because you hate her, but because you love her. Just like a little kid who pouts when you won't do things her way, your MIL is not capable of understanding (at this point) that you are doing things she does not like because you love her. You might want to use that analogy when talking to your husband and SIL.
I can see SIL texting me at some point on the above, with the shower .. and informing me that they feel she'd do better with "x, y and z" as a set up .. who knows what that might be .. (for all I know they want her to use the other bathroom where there is a tub, I don't have a clue what they'll want). But I can see it ... that she will be texting me with the latest report of "need" on that front. And practicing my pat answer, "that's nice, I'm sure you guys will work it out".
Or texting me once she's gone home, "sounds like mother sent the PT folks packing .. she always says she knows what she needs to do and dispenses with their services, she's so damn stubborn".
My pat answer, "I'm sure you guys will figure it out, gotta run".
Or SIL texting, .. "sounds like the home health nurse reports that mother is struggling with managing her meds, .. .they are working to devise other methods to help her remember to take her meds".
Again, pat answer: "sounds frustrating, .. I gotta run, on my way to _____________ and then _____________, have a great day".
Trying to devise answers that leave me and my involvement out of the equation. I won't even be doing the whole, "Gee have you talked that over with your brother". Nope .. not doing that. She knows, she's been told, she's been given the memo, .. he is the front line now .. so talk to him or don't, .. don't care. Not stepping up to that plate, only to be told, "No I tried to reach him but he hasn't called me back, can you let him know .............."
Nope no and no! Not even suggesting that going forward. Just pat answers.
"Gee that sounds really frustrating, I'm sure you guys will get it figured out, on with my day here .. lots to get done".
Pat answers. Lining them up and writing them rote-like, similar to a school child being punished. Over and over and over, same words.
Not sure what my approach will be going forward as to contact with MIL and how that might look. Generally, before now, .. I would speak with her .. perhaps every-other-day .. in the mornings before I start my day, give her a call, ck in.
I said, as the dd's pregnancy and complications set in there, .. as well as the impending arrival of the twins, said it very loud and clear, that's where my focus would be. And it has been. I wasn't any longer phoning MIL routinely. It seemed like it reduced down to a once a week call .. just ck'g in .. and all knew ... I'd be busy on the dd/twins front (and I have been).
So now, twins are here ... (they all happen to be out of town at this moment, .. and will be into next week). Dd "is" getting a better handle on functioning with lack of sleep and exhaustion (that will wane some .. in the months to come, as they sleep more), .. but dd is in fact .. getting a better handle (maybe hormones returning to a normal level, maybe the anti-depressant she's been put on) .. she is getting a better handle on life as we know it now.
She still .............ANYTIME I can/want to come that way ........ she gladly hands off babies and/or chores and will go lay down, .. or go run some errands, whatever, .. and I intend to be that service to her, .. as long as she needs/wants it.
So I haven't yet gotten quite a mental picture of how it will "look" going forward as to any "contact" with MIL. I don't want to just disappear off the radar entirely and give anyone an impression that I hate/loathe/despise MIL. That isn't the case.
But I also don't want to be in this thing, knee deep, not even big toe deep.
Any suggestions?
SIL (as we all know) as well as DH .. both are aware of my stance here .. (whether it gets honored going forward will be up to me, and digging in my stubborn heels on it).
And on the front with the home health nurse. If I'm not mistaken, that home health nurse will visit 2 x's a week. No. There are pills that are to be taken 3 x's daily.
It will "help" as far as, .. let's say she shows up on Thursday .. and the pills that should've been taken the day before, still sit in their vial, not taken. Yes .. there ya go .. we see the pattern of her failing to take her meds (it can be documented).
I remember when I was there on the scene recently and trying to .. from afar ... keep a finger on the pulse of her well being . and looking at that vial . and seeing .. that she'd not taken all of her pills, for whatever day it was I was there, .. and pills in other days of the week, etc. Indicative she'd not taken her pills. I questioned that. Her answer was a rather .. almost like she considered it cute/comical .. "I have my own system set up here .. just because you don't see the Tuesday pills gone .. I have it all set up my own way".
I didn't even bother .. that's when I was in the beginning stages of this whole, "This is too much to manage here folks".
I have no idea, not being on the scene there (which is where I want to be, not on the scene) .. SIL says that MIL seems very motivated as to self-care and what she can do, and is working with (cooperating) with PT/OT .. and them helping to devise ways she can remember to hydrate, take her meds, nutrition, etc.
Have no idea what they might've set up or worked with her on, on that front.
And yes, if she will do the PT that is instructed, on her own (she has in the past, at times) .. and other times .. she doesn't even complete the course of at home PT .. sending them packing .. telling all, "Now I've done this enough that I KNOW what I need to do and I will do it, I don't need people coming and going here all the hours of the days .. I've done this route .. of at home PT .. so many times, there's nothing they can show me that I don't already know, and it's up to me to do it .. and I will do it", as she sends them on their way .. closing out the case.
Til the next time ..............
Lather/rinse/repeat.
OT is new. She's never had an OT involved. I had suggested that several months back .. as I'd talked to an elderly lady in our church who had just finished a round of OT subsequent to a hospital stay and she questioned whether DH's mom has that in place. I suggested it, and it was met with, "oh you know how mother is .. she's so damned stubborn, she doesn't want people coming and going .. that'd probably help her, . but you know how she is" Suggested it to MIL . months back .. same response.
Let it go.
Then, this hospitalization, PT and OT assigned .. and of course, have been visiting. Whether MIL continues with their services after SIL leaves tomorrow, .. I guess we'll see.
SIL noted the other day in her daily report that OT doesn't seem real pleased with the shower set up there .. in the home. I asked, "What do they want, no curb, walk in shower".
She answered, .. "I'm not sure I have to get more info from them".
I haven't heard anymore on that front . but I'm guessing that might be what they're looking for and you're talking a LOT of money to retrofit a shower to a no curb .. and walk in .. w/slope .. that involves busting up a tiled/concrete floor and moving the drain line down .. and then re-concrete . and re-tile . with tiles that likely won't be able to be matched (home built in the early 70's).
Is it wise to go in and spend all that $, to retrofit a shower for ADA ... when the home is reverse mortgaged (it goes back to the bank when she dies) . and .. really ....??.....how much longer can she even live there/function there?
I dunno. I don't know that it would be a good idea to do all that.
I haven't heard anymore on what was discussed as to their .. less than pleased, .. with the shower set up.
MIL has as a masters shower (that's all she has in her master bathroom, not a tub/shower, just a shower) .. and it's rectangle .. it's not just a square space. And in there, there are grab bars installed (by DH long ago) at various points .. and a shower chair ..... (DME) .. and a hand-held shower, .. and yes there is a curb she has to get over to get into the shower (I don't know that to be the point causing OT to have a problem with the shower set up, just presuming) .. but there are grab bars there ... and I guess it was thought, by DH and SIL .. that the grab bars, .. there to help MIL to hang onto something as she steps over that curb to enter the shower.
That one, I haven't heard another thing about .. and I haven't inquired ...
I don't know. How often does the home health nurse come to the house? Unless it's every time MIL takes her meds (and is that 1x or 2x or 3x/day?), it's not really going to help with MIL not taking her meds. The OT and PT? Well, she might do the exercises while they are there, but unless she's doing them on her own when they are NOT there, I don't think it will make much difference.
I agree with surprise, in that you perhaps should NOT call MIL and tell her you are available for some things. I think that to tell her you will be (even sometimes) available will plant you firmly at the top of a very slippery slope, ready to slide down into the abyss of Perpetual Stepandfetchit once again.
And interesting to note, you guys ... on the piece about "is that what mother wants?", as to SIL and her never-ending requests. As I described in an earlier post about how things work, all the triangulation that goes on. I have said to SIL .. in complete exasperation, .. "I just talked to her 20 mins ago, and she never mentioned needing ___________, I even asked her if she's okay is there anything she needs and she never mentioned that".
SIL responds: "I know .. she doesn't want to bother you guys, she knows how busy you guys are".
ME: "Well .. it still circles back to us, if you are telling us, .. we are not "less busy" because you say it .... doesn't matter who says it .. we are "still busy" ... I'm not going to address that unless she asks, .. she knows how to reach either one of us, and I talk to her almost daily .. you can let her know that you mentioned it to me, .. but if she needs ________________ and _______________ she can certainly reach one of us, and we'll see what we can do to help".
SIL: "She won't ask, .. she just knows that you guys are so busy .. so she won't ask".
ME: "Well when it becomes important enough that she needs it, she will ask, otherwise I'm going on the assumption she doesn't really need it".
The above ... has been attempted NUMEROUS TIMES.
The result, .. in a couple of days, from SIL: "Mother never did get _____________, .. she still needs _________________ and _________________ and when I ask her she says she'll get to it, .. but she doesn't seem to be able to do it, I feel so concerned .. I wish she'd ask you guys, but she won't .. she just knows you guys are so busy".
Round and round it goes.
I then tell SIL, "I talk to her almost daily and I ask her each and every time is there anything you need, anything I can help you with .. and she says no .. I'm not going to concern myself .. if she needs something, she'll need to tell us and yes we're busy but we will figure a way to help her .. but she needs to ask".
It's been tried .... the whole "if MIL asks, then address it".
Somehow .. as I described previously that piece of it all, absolutely confounds and frustrates both myself and DH .. and as he refers to it, "these B/S games she plays .. (that's how he perceives what goes on) .. she doesn't TELL US ...............we're right here .. 20 mins away ............. no she circles it all thru SIL 1K miles away ............. and then SIL stays in our ass about it ..". It infuriates both of us, to the core.
You even circle it back to MIL in discussion, ... in an effort to .. let's cut to the chase here and stop all this circuitous need/request game. You go to MIL: "Listen I just talked to SIL .. and she says that you haven't been able to go get ______________, I just talked to you and you didn't mention that you needed anything, why won't you tell us".
You get, in response: "That d*mn SIL ......................... now I will take care of it and I told her not to tell you guys .......... I wish she'd leave well enough alone ... "
This is how all this plays out, truly and honest to God.
So you say to MIL, "well do you need me to take care of that .....". She will say in response, "Well if you're out and about, I wish you'd go get ________________ and while you're out .. if you're coming this way ............. would you also get _________________, and you know I also need to go to ______________________".
Well no, I wasn't going to be out and about .. but ........ okay .............
This is the actual portrayal of how it all goes, it's been attempted. You even ask her, "Now why do you tell her .. tell us ... she's 1K miles away she can't do it, why don't you tell us". You get in response, "that SIL ........... she would actually breathe every breath for me, if I'd let her .. I have to do all that I can to stay healthy and not have to be her charge .. that girl .. if left to her ......... I'd not have a brain left in my head, she'd think for me, breathe for me ....... ".
Okay MIL, but why do you tell her and not us .......
And then is when you get the whole piece about .. she doesn't go anywhere, do anything .. doesn't have anything interesting to talk about as to what was her latest venture out, to a movie, or a museum .. or a lunch out, or whatever, ... she has nothing to talk about really, and SIL calling her 3 and 4 x's daily .. and she just happens to, in conversation, just making conversation .. mention that she needs to get out and get _______________ and she needs to _________________", ..
This is how all of this plays out. And then SIL in our ears about it. You tell SIL, "not gonna address it, if she needs it, she knows how to reach us".
Round and round and round it goes.
And Barb's remark, stay out of the line of fire. Was talking to my dad and that was his advice .. in a nutshell, stay out of the line of fire. Dad's wife (stepmom for many years) .. her mother and father in their waning years (it's been years ago) .. and stepmom on that front waging that battle as to their care .. stepmom has 3 or 4 siblings and most live nearby or close enough. My question to my dad had been .. "how did that all go with the siblings, was their agreement among all siblings as to the various approaches .......". He said that in their case, it was stepmom doing all the legwork, she was the workhorse in it all .. and mostly .. the siblings stayed on the periphery .. and that when asked to do something . usually it was met with excuses and consternation and admonition on their parts, as to stepping up .. as a result stepmom did the work .. and didn't really involve others and they seemed quite happy to stay there .. on the sidelines and not question. As my dad said, .. his mantra is "lead, follow, or get the h*ll out of the way of those that do lead".
I described to him (he is aware of my plight of having to be on the front lines of it all, and has worried and verbalized many times that he thinks I have too many irons in the fire for my own good .. and he worries as to my health .. and what will be the outcome), ... described to him .. the contrast between what he was describing .. and what is lived on this end .. with a daughter that isn't .. geographically right here on the scene to do the heavy lifting, as it were, was was the case with his wife (stepmom) and her parents.
His advice, "get out of the way and let them do their thing, just stay out of the way". Describing to him .. "but as you know, I get called upon as the legwork to all this in SIL's absence here, some of it really silly and superfluous". His advice, "that's DH's job to answer to".
Yes indeed, there will be a new approach upcoming. One that hasn't been attempted previously. There has been lip service, .. as I run up the flagpole repeatedly that this isn't working any longer ........... sure has been. But SIL waltzes into town .. and runs circles around her mother with all her busyness .. and waltzes back out of town and then directs from afar .. and I jump .. thru the years .. to the beat of that drum .. with due diligence.
It will be different this time. Very different.
I don't think SIL has grasped that yet .. as she daily reports to me all the gongs on .. and then tries to (triangulate) me into her expectations as to DH and what the needs will be, "the sprinkler head that's broken that he knows about, need him to clean out the gutter over the b'door .. need him to designate and set aside a set time each week, that he can carve out 2 or 3 hours to come and do things here".
Running all that past the person (me) who she has clearly been told .. time and again, this most recent episode, is out ......... I'm out .. I will not be stepping to, in it all. And yet she still reports in daily with all of it as well as throwing out the next need "see above as to DH and her expectations going forward".
There was a time, oh was there a time .............. probably thousands of them thru the years .. she'd put in my ear .. what she needs DH to attend to on that end .. and I'd dutifully take that on and then I'd be in DH's ear on it .. and if he didn't get to it, repeated reminders .. to the point I was at the other end of his consternation for all the "nagging". Triangulating. Me, at the other end of his wrath and frustration with it all.... simply because of my genuine concern .. MIL is out there struggling to do _________________and ________________ and she has no business doing that, it's dangerous .. you need to get out there and take care of it so she won't do it.Him now angry and frustrated with me, .... because as he sees it .. (right or wrong) he is doing the best he can with what he has on his plate to manage .. and if he hasn't gotten there soon enough to suit .. me or his sister .. or whatever ...........then get over it, .. get out of azz ... .
The frustration of all that! For many years. And it's not even mine to wear.
The one that will be most interesting ... because I know, I KNOW IT, I KNOW IT ............... this assertion that you want him to "carve out 2 or 3 hours weekly, at a designated time", each week .. and set that aside to go over there and take care of things .. on an assigned day of the week, at "x" time. It's not going to happen. I have fought that battle .. (traingulated) into it, more than I care to be. I happen to agree .. if he could/would do that, that's best for all involved. But I've waged that war and to no avail. His take on the above is "I'll get there when I can", .. and he does do that. He doesn't "ignore" need. But he .. if you ask him .. cannot ... set up .. (for instance) "for sure, I will be there on Wednesday evenings, at 5 PM and I will stay until 8 ........ every Wednesday that will be my DESIGNATED/ASSIGNED time to go there for certain, come h*ll or high water. It won't happen ........ he can't/won't. I don't know .. but that too, not my battle to wage. His sister now asserting that's what she wants him to do. SIGH. Been there/done that .. tried to get that done. To no avail. She then puts that in my ear . yet again ..... (it's been attempted so many times before) ... puts that in my ear (attempt to traingulate me into it, yet again), ..... it will be interesting to see if she approaches him .. and what his response is. I doubt she's going to get the response she is looking for.
No, I don't think she's got it .. she doesn't yet clearly grasp .. it's going to look very different going forward.
I say let MIL speak up if she wants something. Sil says mom wants it?
" I'll have to hear that from her".
Cut out the triangulation.
And yes, let 911 get the call and let the ER evaluate. Show up...........eventually.
I have a dear friend who's husband was still riding his bike into his 70s. He got hit by a car during a long distance ride and was in a body cast for several months. When he got well, he started riding again. Wife and he agreed, only inside the huge public park near their home.
After a couple of rides, he ventured out onto the streets. Got knocked off his bike, shattering his hip. He called his wife as the ambulance was on its way. She asked where they were taking him and was given the name of the local trauma hospital. "Good. Call me when they release you".
What? You mean when I get to the ER? " No. When they release you. You brought this up on yourself, you'll have to manage it the same way".
She's tough!
The joy of having placed mthr in a home is that I can go and *visit* her, chat at, and give news to. Just friendly. I have no pressing responsibility to *do* anything. The grass is cut, the floors are mopped, and dinner was planned a month ago, shopped for, and is already being prepared, and the dishes from the last meal are already washed. Nothing for me to do but exude love. That's what your calls should be - simply visits, not solving problems. (((Hugs!)))
As long as MIL is not declared incompetent, she rules (as she already is). She calls the shots. She mismanages her meds, doesn't eat or hydrate properly, and MIL drives. So be it. (All of those professionals, and they all think she's capable of driving! Shame on them...)
MIL will never use a tray. They are impractical even for the most mobile senior. I have seen plastic bags used as well as those cute little "fanny packs" that can be fastened to the walker. Trays? Forget about it.
It is truly a shame the siblings missed this opportunity to actually sit together and discuss their mother's future care. No one wants to have to place their loved one in a NH. When my brother & I began to even think of placement outside of her home, I remember that for me, that was the absolute worst time. But fate took care of that decision for us with her last fall on wet grass taking her groceries in from the car after being told by all of the family and her health care providers NOT to walk on what could be wet grass to prevent a fall and to walk over to the concrete sidewalk.
In those few moments her fate was sort of sealed.
And we STILL took her home after that episode and folded to her wishes yet again.
It got progressively worse after this episode. Refusal to shower, sending away home care nurses and therapists, & her dementia got much worse after the last encounter with anesthesia - combative, fights in the middle of the day or night with my brother when she did not agree or see things her (cognitive deficits). She wentj outside in the middle of the night to throw away old food to the animals as her generation did not waste anything. The last episode that secured her bed in the NH was not moving her bowels for 2 weeks and no one knew...
SIL leaves Sunday - I see a crisis in 2 weeks max when she hasn't take her meds or forgets to hydrate and along comes another UTI or an episode of cellulitis from lower extremity edema.
Let it go...you still have many battles ahead Dorker. The H has no time nor patience to care for his mom 24/7. He feels comfortable in announcing he will devote a certain amount of time weekly to assure his mother has the basics but that won't suffice for her, and he will see that. It'll be back to square one.
But, it is what it is.
Next hospitalization- and there will be one - you don't go to her home to assess her first, you have her use her lifeline or call 911 yourself. Let her fend for herself and meet her at the hospital.
The initial exam they perform to assess memory, etc will show cognitive deficits that will be documented on her medical records. Let her confusion be documented as no one will be there to answer EMS initial questions and present smoke screens over her deficits.
Set boundaries of your own since you can't control the others. Stick to those boundaries. Yes because of our wife role your spouse will attempt to delegate off the stupid silly requests from his mother (the special dog food) or next too, her neighbors will verbalize that your MIL is over at her home trying to do something she clearly can't do (yard work, even opening the gate to allow someone to get in her yard) & her neighbors are now aware that she is unsafe. SIL will burn up those phone lines and eventually some neighbor will tell your SIL enough is enough - call someone else.
It's all been said in this thread but unfortunately no resolution reached during this missed opportunity between the siblings. But no missed opportunity on your part; you have stated your case & it's clear you want to be out, but you are too nice to them as yes they are family and you love each of them.
So, review those boundaries with your husband so he understands your resolve and is aware of your position. Once he tries to push the envelope to ask your help in pursuing some other stupid need of your MIL, remind him that isn't in the agreement. Of course you will feel guilty as you are aware that your self employed spouse has no wiggle room that day and the MIL needs those vitamins ASAP!. Stand your ground. Let H do some shuffling.
I cannot even believe that SIL gassed up her mother's car. Less than two weeks out from a hospital evaluation for changes in mental status and UTI, and the daughter is giving the keys to her car back to someone who should not be driving. Total denial.
Again if this is where things stand and SIL is leaving, fasten your seat belt Ms Dorker it's going to be a wild ride.
You will be fine. Keep on keeping on!
"Is that what mom wants?"
Just keep that as your backup reply to anything that is sent your way.
You and me (and a lot of us here) are planners. We like to know the facts and get a plan going. What's the diagnosis, what are all the fact to consider and what is the best treatment plan.
MIL and SIL? they aren't like that.
We think that it's the wrong way to be. They think that your way is nuts, too, probably.
The best we can do is try to stay out of the line of fire (and requirment) and let the drama people play their parts.
And yes, she has 3 walkers. One for the house, one for the garage .. both of those are rolators .. and then she has the aluminum one that sits in the middle of her kitchen .. used as kinda an anchor for touch walking, .. across her large kitchen ...
Still hasn't been adequately explained how the path forward will look as to MIL driving, and taking along her own walker, and utilizing it. I know those rolator types .. are going to be too cumbersome for her to fold, and put into the car and get out of the car.
So the obvious alternative, use the aluminum one, it's lightweight .. easily collapsible .. use that one.
But it's been said, she struggles to use that one to walk .. (not sure why) ..
So I have no real understanding of how this is all going to play out ... she supposedly cleared to drive now .. SIL leaving .. and oh boy will she, .. yes indeed she will, if she needs to go somewhere, .. not a hesitation in the world, .. she'll get in her car and drive off. How is it going to work with the walker, ..???.....that hasn't been explained.
The only way it was found was the neighbors noticed no one was taking in the paper daily and went to ck on him.
He was found in the floor, .. and rescue summoned. He died within a week.
The correlation here .. why would anyone knowingly .. risk factors, .. lack of self care, etc .. why would they risk that scenario .. if it can be helped. Makes no sense to me.
I don't know the history of the stepsister's dad to know whether they should've known a stroke was imminent. But I do know that with MIL she definitely has a history and some proclivity for same, as well as a horrible fall risk.
The thing I struggle so, to not be angry about (and I'm not there yet) .. if it were me, I'd want to gather all possible data to make an educated decision going forward.
YES indeed, MIL is thought to be of sound mind, and can make her own decisions .. and suffer the ramifications of those decisions, absolutely 100% true.
But if it were me, .. and my mother .. before I would leave her be, to her own poor decisions, .. I would insist that she get all available tests to get a clearer picture of her capabilities or lack thereof. I would not be refusing to get any further testing done, because "they all agree it was the UTI that caused the confusion, she's fine now".
I find that infuriating. What's the harm in finding out, the bigger picture.
Yes, you might find out through the testing, indeed, this person needs more help and isn't going to be able to manage. And then go to MIL and tell her the results of the tests and her STILL insistent, she can manage.
THEN you have a decision to make .. in my mind's eye ... you know .. leaving her alone, she is going to fail to manage .. and so you decide for yourself what your involvement will be when it continues to fall off a cliff, as it always does.
I just don't get it, can't wrap my brain around why (mostly) SIL .. she's the one supposedly in charge, and to a lesser degree DH (he's kinda on the periphery doing as directed, as best he can) ... why they both find that an acceptable path forward, .. all based in emotion .... the emotion that MIL displays that she wants to remain "Independent" .. and so by GOLLY that's what we're gonna do. Gathering all available data/tests, etc .. as to a bigger picture .. nah .. who needs all that superfluous stuff.
Not how I would do things.