I've posted before about in-law care-giving. Aged mother in law, lives in same town.
We are at the tail end of a visit from sister in law from several states away. Sister in law has been here for 3 weeks caring for her mother. A much welcome respite.
It had been discussed, prior to her arrival here on the scene, she would be talking it over with her mother, to try and get her mom to come up to her home, for a stay of maybe a few months.
This, in my opinion, is absolutely essential, as I am expecting twin grand-children, due in about 1 month (if they don't come sooner, as is the case a lot of times with multiples pregnancies). The expectant mother also lives locally here, and has a 4 year old daughter. I will be on that front, helping .. as much as is needed. And not on the front with mother in law and care-giving, and have made that as obvious and apparent as I know how to make it. It would be great if mother in law would agree to go to her daughter's home (several states away) for a period of a few months .. and allow me the latitude to put my energies where I want them to be, on my daughter who will have had a c-section .. and my grand-daughter (4 years old) and new twin babies.
Nothing doing. Mother in law has dug in her heels, and will not hear of it, going to stay with her daughter for any period of time.
What are her reasons?
In mother in law's defense ... her daughter ... I don't even know how to describe it. I will say that when her daughter comes here to visit, she all but breathes for her mother and if she could find a way to do that, she'd do that too. She is the most nervous nelly, never sit down - ever ... worry wart, do everything, all the time .. person that I've ever encountered.
A great example, as I was taking her to the airport yesterday for her departure, . I reached into the fridge to grab myself a bottled water and shut the fridge and turned to walk away, as I've done for all of my 50 plus years living on this earth .. and she said to me, "Oh make sure that fridge shut". WTH???? Like I don't know how to shut a fridge? That's just a small, very small slice of what she is ... how she is.
She is so very hyper-vigilant, seeing to every minute details down to it's finest most minuscule point, fine tooth comb, questioning every point along the way, "should we do thus and so, but maybe if we do thus and so, then such and such will happen, maybe we should do it thus and so .. but then so and so might happen, maybe we shouldn't do thus and so, but do "x" "y" and "z" instead, but if we don't do it that way then ..........", on and on and on and on it goes. And usually in hyper warp speed, as to every single friggin thing.
If her mother moans .. "what's wrong mother?, why did you moan, are you alright?".
Mother: "Yes, I'm fine, I was just sighing out loud".
Sister: "Why did you sigh? Are you hurting, are you sure you're alright, why are you sighing what's the matter?"
Mother: "For God's sake __________________, I was just sighing, .. calm down, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, .. because if something is wrong you need to tell me".
Mother: "Everything is fine, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, we did a lot yesterday, did we do too much, maybe we shouldn't of gone to two doctors in one day .. was that too much for you, are you too tired now, maybe we need to move those other doctor appointments so we won't have two in one day, is that too much for you, for one day .. is that why you were sighing .. what's wrong, are you sure you're alright".
Hopefully that kinda gives a little bit of a snapshot of what goes on when sister is in the ring directing things.
So in mother in law's defense.. I do get it, why she wouldn't be chomping at the bit to go to her daughter's home.
BUT ....
The only experience she has with her daughter, in the last years as mother in law has aged and been unable to go anywhere much, has been the daughter coming here, periodically, for periods of about 3 weeks at a stretch. When her daughter comes here, she moves heaven and earth for her mother and then some, and doesn't sit down, doesn't stop .. the WHOLE ENTIRE TIME.
Is there a possibility maybe (as I said to mother in law, when she expressed that isn't happening - talking to me - her going to her daughters .. ever) .. could it be possible that maybe if you would go to where she lives .. she'd be more busy managing her own life in that setting than your's and she would get out of your backside .. and not be as hyper-drive-vigilant as you experience in her, when she's here, could that be possible.
The daughter is retired, lives several states away. Does come here, generally, every few months .. and stays for a period of about 3 weeks at a stretch. I wish I could make a list of everything the daughter did when here this last time, but it would take up the whole character allotment:
As you've noticed, there is a lot of pot stirring going on here. " oh, she's so afraid you'll fuss at her"......"no, no, we wouldn't do that". (MiL goes to dinner, proceeds to eat foods she shouldn't. DH SAYS " now mom".....MIL bursts into dramatic tears. " you promised...."
Maybe once SIL leaves, yet again .. for her home 1K miles away and the dust settles, I'll give MIL a call to ck on her, and somehow impart to her to let me know if she needs anything, and leave it at that.
Yes, you have it pegged. SIL running around in fix it mode, if I just get enough assist devices . and in the right places and the right foods, the right amount of water/electrolyte waters, doc visits, etc etc.......If I just get all that done and in place, things will be okay.
NO ... they won't be. I see it, ... but I'm the only one that does, and I don't "really" count. So be it.
When the police broke down the door, as they were bundling her on to the stretcher, she turned to her stepdaughter and said " can't we just take a cab to Lenox Hill Hospital?" The assembled crowd (neighbors, EMTs, family) shouted "no" in unison. Went to rehab and went back to her apartment with aides.
Dorker, I think you recognize that you have two problems here.
You have MIL, who is clearly having problems living independently due to increasing mobility issues, oedema and difficulty thinking and prioritizing.
You have a problem with SIL, who is in " fix-it" mode. This is the frenzied search for the magic that will allow the patient to function normally. Except SIL has the ideas and has you execute them.
MiL and SIL are not on the same page. I would stop responding to SIL and only take into consideration what MIL asks for.
That's the story I got. I'd be inclined to believe that SIL the guardian and protector of all things MIL .. might be a bit more in the direction that perhaps SIL is worried that DH and myself would use that setting to browbeat MIL.
I wouldn't put it past SIL to be the basis for the above. Truly.
But the above is the story I got. No, DH nor myself had, ever, any intention of utilizing that kind of setting to corner MIL. We both realize all too well, .. the drama queen MIL can be, that'd be the perfect setting for some drama and tears and onlookers gawking at what must they be doing to that poor frail old woman. We would never.
If there was a "want" to sit her down and speak the truth .. that would be up to DH .. and you've seen here what DH and his sister's approach is to the whole scene. DH did .. briefly, fleetingly, go there and the drama that ensued, he backed off and hasn't gone there since.
StacyB: You are, IMO, to be commended. Finally having free'd yourselves from the whole scene, only for the story to have changed. I would say that, if you can tolerate it, . and if it is a matter of mere weeks, . the familiar setting for your FIL . being around family and familiar surroundings, would be optimal. I would probably make the decision you did, given those same circumstances.
The health scare you had, . if you hadn't already had a wake up call that things are falling off a cliff, as to stress level, that surely had to be one. Good that is past you and no worse for the wear in the end.
And yes, I think .. somehow (I have a hard time understanding and comprehending how it is I see it so clearly and SIL and DH do not .. apparently) .. the terrible fall, .. I see it, it's coming, . so painful, so humiliating .. (it can be, if one lays there in some form of undress .. until rescue can arrive) .. and .. perhaps even debilitating .. I see it coming. Struggle mightily to figure how it is that I'm the only one that does see it. To me, it makes perfect sense to put the shoulder into this .. and insist that MIL allow more help .. more supervision .. and yes .. I guess (I haven't been there, but I do believe I could do it) .. yes indeed .. if it means that she calls with some "woe with me tale" that has been borne out of her own negligence at self-care .. that I could actually tell her, "you have a life-alert, use it", .. and then catch up with her later in the hospital . .and not be there with wringing my hands and worry and running circles around her every move, to make sure every "i" is dotted and every "t" crossed.
I have to think if this were my mom, that hard line approach .. I do believe I could stomach it ..
And in this case, .. it may be what it would take for her to realize .. she has to do more .. allow more help. But as long as she can keep everyone dancing to the beat of her drum, irregardless of what it does to their own personal circumstances/stress level, etc. . that's immaterial to her .. as long as she can continue to direct this orchestra .. she's gonna keep doing it. Even to her own peril. I believe it, through and through.
How much we step up to care for them is entirely our choice.
We should not sacrifice our health or well-being in the service of our parents' independence.
My husband does have 2 siblings, but neither of them live in this state, and both are no good users, having taken advantage of their parents and bilking them out of many many thousands over the years, so it was only me and my devoted husband, there to help them over the years.
Four years after the move to the apartment, my MIL passed away from Severe COPD, and my FIL came to live with us, as he was "petrified" to live alone on his own (he had never lived alone, having gone front his parents home at 17, right into the Navy, and then married life). Thirteen years with us, him and his ever increasing needs, putting stress and strain on our marriage, and learning along the way (from my reaching out to the wonderful folks here on the AC! ) that he is a Classic Narcissist, as I never knew what that was, only that he fit the bill with his FOG (Fear Obligation and Guilt) that he pulled on us at every turn. Still, we loved him, but something had to give after 13 long years, as we were aging right along side him, now 87 years old!
We are now 57 & 61, our 4 kids in their 30's, 3 beautiful Grandsons to love and enjoy, but we haven't been able to enjoy them as much as we'd like, because my FIL is very much a shut in, no longer wishing to participate in life's joys, and that holds us back from doing so, as in the last 3 years in particular, he has become more and more frail, more demanding and unapreciative (NARC!), and a fall risk, forcing one or both of us from leaving the house to stay to look after him.
In all of the past 2 years, our marriage has become somewhat strained from the pressures of caregiving, stress, anger, RESENTMENT, and I have been seeking out the advice from our Aging Care cyber friends, on what to do, and how to go about getting my FIL into Assisted living, before my marriage completely implodes and we can get on with enjoying our own lives, and without hurting and destroying this man whom I do Love, but whom I/we needed to live separately from, and without hurting his feelings, or him thinking that we are abandoning him.
Finally 10 weeks ago, we finally managed to do just that (with the help and encouragement from you all,
And a long standing Saga over on the Dysfunctional Family Thread, Lol!), and we placed him into an Assisted living place only 5 blocks from our home.
My hubby still seeing him every day, and me, well I backed Way off, having been in a state of complete Caregiver Burnout, I sat back and let my husband establish his own boundries with his Dad, and things definitely improved.
My Narcissistic FIL still had my husband running like a chicken every single day, running his errands, banking /Bill paying, shopping, but that was fine with me, as I was pretty much staying out of it, trying to reset my own boundries from caregiver, back to loving DIL.
My FIL really liked the place, we had made his apartment quite homey, with all of his old furnishings. He loved all the attention he got there, the food, and it was an all around good move for all concerned.
About 4 weeks after he moved out, I had my own health care crisis, which I believe was brought on by stress. I had severe chest wall pain, but upon seeing my Dr, I had lab work done which showed a high white blood cell count (indicating infection), and my Dr sent me to the ER, to have tests done to rule out a hot gallbladder. After the million dollar work over and 3 days in hospital, nothing showed positive except the ongoing and severe chest wall pain they came up with the diagnosis of Costochondritis. Not a lot you can do about it but anti-inflammatory meds and rest, and it did get better and is now gone, but the whole painful episode for me lasted about 3 full weeks! I do believe that it was all posts tramatic stress related from the move, and all that led up to it.
Now, you may get wondering why I'm telling you all this? You may have noticed that I have been a bit absent from the AC site this past week or so, and that us because my FIL did have a very bad fall in his apartment at AL, and was found by my husband. He apparently had been on the floor since his bedtime the night before, and had laid there 16 hours, in only his undies, and unable to get up or draw attention to himself. He had had some small signs of oncoming ilness, a little mental confusion, very tired, not eating much, but no apparent fever or changes his normal cough. So hubby found him, he was difficult to rouse, cold to the touch and he thought he was dead. The aid car was called and he was transfered and admitted into hospital with Right lung Pneumonia. Further testing found severe Cardiomyopathy, heart failure, Sepsis, near kidney failure, and bunch of other metabolic issues, and a Cancer screening CT scan which was previously scheduled, was done in house and a Cancerous Mass was found in his Left Lung.
He was hospitalized 8 days total, in grave condition, too weak and frail for his Cancer Dr to recommend aggressive treatment on this new Cancer diagnosis, and especially at 87 years old. My husband and I were called in to make decisions on whether he was to go to a Nursing home and have Hospice care, or to return to our home for Hospice care, and the prognosis/timeline given to us was "a few weeks, probably not much longer than that", per the Cancer Dr. He told us that the cancer has already spread to his the rib bones in the back, and that it was likely aggressive. Further biopsy was not nessesary and was contradicated, as he had to have his other lung tapped for fluid build up the day before, and it was dangerous to put "big needles into both lungs, for no good reason, the diagnosis was made per CT scan.
So here we are, my FIL arrived back into our home yesterday on Hospice, our choice, as together my husband and I felt that we can do Anything, for several weeks to a few months, but then again, he and I both have very much been caretakers for our 3 parents who all passed 13 and 14 years ago, that's just been our lot in life, and has been our commitment to our parents.
I do realize that caring for a Narcissist is extremely difficult, but we now have the support of Hospice, and the pharmacologic supplies to keep him calm and comfortable, as that's what this end stage is all about.
If there is any part of my story that strikes home for you, I hope that it is for you Not to wait until there is a Crisis at home, for it will surely come, and your husband and his sister will most certainly feel bad about it, knowing it might have been prevented. I know that we did, his was not preventable, but unfortunate, but we felt so bad nonetheless.
The poor old guy, now so pitiful, laying in a hospital bed back in his old room here in our home. It definitely puts it all into prospective for me. The move to Assisted living was intended to solve a myriad of problems and did for a very short time, but you never know what is lurking behind the next turn.
My advice is to do everything you can, to get your MIL placed somewhere where she is safe, cared for and comfortable, but definitely not with you! Because this shite ain't for dummies! We know we are in for a very dificult road ahead, but we made the decision jointly, and will take it one day at a time, and if we find this is an unmanageable situation, he will be sent to a Hospice facility. I do have Hospice experience, so I have a good idea what we are in for, our kids and my family will always be there to help, so we are very lucky in that way.
But Dorker, I am really proud of you this far, for setting up your boundries, and I know that you can do this! You can still be that loving DIL, and regain your freedom and your life! Time for hubby and his sister to take charge and to quit dancing around the serious and potential health crisis that you know will happen! You go girl!
I took a 99 cent bag from Whole Foods and duct-taped it to the front for mom to put stuff in.
1. A standard weekly shopping list
2. An ongoing list of " what I need in the next 4 weeks"
3. Yard workers.
4. Handyman on call
5. Housecleaning once a month or so.
6. Regular doc appointments.
I know, because we did this for my mom for a couple of years.
But she was patient, and knew that there were things that had to wait several weeks.
And she didn't " insist" on things.
I never answered the text that had to do with poor poor pitiful MIL that we'd drag her to a restaurant to lecture here. I never even responded. So ridiculous.
I wanted to say "she's acting like a child, whatever .. don't go then". But I didn't even respond.
The next barage of 7 pages of texts then comes through, while I'm at lunch with my mother.
Her reporting in (the whirlwind of hubbub that goes on just before she leaves, trying to baton down every hatch), .. her reporting in that she just dropped her mom off for a haircut, and then is going to take back the tray she bought for the walker, doesn't fit .. and she's going to gas up her mom's car for her, so she won't have to do that ... trying to get to the grocery to restock her household before she leaves, but she now has to go to the DME store to see if she can buy trays for her 3 walkers and cup holders so her mom can carry her water bottle back and forth.
Goes on to say there are some tree limbs and branches in the b'yard and she is gonna drag those to the front, neighbor said he'd cut them up for her for the garbage people to pick them up. Says that she doesn't think she'll get to the gutter over the b'door that it needs cleaning out, it's like a waterfall when it rains.
Says she'll ask DH (her brother) to do that when he comes to fix the sprinkler head that's broken that he already knows about. Says she has to take her mother tomorrow to find her some shoes .. and she already took back some bras/underwear she bought for her.
She goes on to say, "so worn out/stressed out .. I'm sure when I get on that plane on Sunday I will collapse".
I couldn't help it, I responded:
"but she can manage, remember".
Her response to that: "H*ll this is too much for even a healthy person to manage, I'd planned on being here another couple of weeks, and it wouldn't of been a problem, it would've been more manageable .......now I'm rushing around trying to do it all before I leave on Sunday and worried/stressed about my husband. And besides that, there's no way she could've loaded up 3 walkers into her car to go get the trays for them, she wouldn't of been able to do that".
I sat there at lunch with my mom ..
I responded only: "Sure hope your husband is going to be okay, I know you're concerned".
Now I ask all of you, is she trying to get me to snap on her. Because that's just about how I feel. I don't "snap" easily. I am patient, to a fault. But .. am I the only one that sees .. in the above ..................."LACK OF ABILITY TO MANAGE".
Why are you the one out buying your mother's bras and underwear that you now have to haul back to the store because they don't fit.
People that "manage", take care of that on their own.
Why are you having to go get gas in her car .. and restock her groceries for her ...
People that "manage" do that on their own.
Why are you dragging tree limbs out to the street, .. people who manage on their own, .. either get that done by the yard person when they come, . or they do it themselves.
I get it that her daughter is here, . and wants to do everything she can to be helpful to her mother, while here. I would want to do the same, if my mother needs me.
BUT .........
This is the ongoing stuff that happens all the time!
Is she wanting me to stroke her, "oh you are such a great daughter, I hope your daughter looks after you so conscientiously as you do yours".
Is she wanting me to pity her:
"Oh man, .. I know it's so much .. why don't you leave some of that for me and DH to handle, we'll get to the grocery for her, not a problem .. and those trays .. hey .. I can come pick up those walkers and get that handled .. ".
I'm not doing that.
That's what I USED TO DO.
She's been given the memo . that I'm out ...
What is her motivation here. I don't get it. It's enough to drive me crazy!
And that one point. That one will be interesting.
She texted: "Gonna be talking to H (my husband) about carving out a few hours each week that he can set aside, to be sure and come by to take care of things here .. would be best if he could do that each week, at a designated time".
First off, .. okay so do that, get with him, why are you telling me.
Oh, because you want to triangulate me into that. Nope, not doing it. Been there/done that.
That topic above has been raised before several times .. and I happen to agree with it .. that would be great if he would/could, for instance, "Hey I have a few hours on Sunday afternoons, I'm now going to designate that to mom .. and be at her service on Sunday afternoons".
Yep, that sounds absolutely splendid if he'd do it that way.
He won't. I've tried. Having been attempted to be triangulated into that.
His answer (and it's the truth really): "I can't designate and assign a specific time of day/week that I can mark as "x" ................. I will get over to mom's when I can .. that's the best I can do".
And that's what he does do. He is usually there on Sunday afternoons, but not always .. it depends on what he's had on his radar .. and whether he even has the energy .. if he doesn't go on Sunday afternoons .. he definitely makes it a point to go on a week night. There isn't a single week that goes by that he isn't there, at least one time if not more. But to designate and assign .. a specific day of the week at "x" time .. he has been, at least until now, when I approach it, unwilling to do that.
So you go SIL .. see if you can get that done. And no I won't be approaching him, having been triangulated into it .. on that topic, not a bit.
Narcissists will do themselves harm to get attention.
NO!!! - to chasing round town after bloody vegetarian hypoallergenic bloody dog food, is the one that sticks in my memory.
Otherwise, hear hear!
And, don't forget, you are a kind person who does actually like your MIL, as you have loyally demonstrated over the years; and therefore, when it is a SENSIBLE thing to do and you DO happen to have the time, you will of course say "yes, gladly." As you have always been very happy to do.
SIL's infectious anxiety has got everything out of hand. You are not a beep-beep-expletive-deleted (all of the things you've said you're worried about being). You are a kind and caring person whose goal is reconcile MIL's wishes and welfare with practical reality.
You are saying no to being run ragged, going on fool's errands that make you SIL feel better.
You are saying no to taking her to appointments where advice is given that she either can't or won't follow.
You are saying no to being her only source of amusement and transportation.
You are done with her family members ignoring that she is unsafe driving, living alone and refusing regularly scheduled outside support.
You are done because you are enabling her to continue living unsafely.
You know that she is stubborn and wants things HER way
You want things your way too.
Your daughter only has one mother. Your MIL has other resources, but refuses them.
Sorry, MIL. You're going to have to do without Dorker.
We are all to meet tomorrow night, (SIL, DH and myself as well as MIL, at a favorite restaurant), and I get the following text from SIL regarding tomorrow night:
"Mother keeps acting like she's not going tomorrow night to dinner with all of us. Finally got her to admit she doesn't want to go because she feels as though all 3 of us are going to gang up on her and lecture her and fuss at her the whole time. I told her that we won't do that, and that we can just have dinner out and enjoy it and spend time together".
I'm sorry but ... WTH? I don't feel sorry. Am I supposed to? That was not on the radar that we'd all get together and brow beat her over a dinner out, for Chryst's sake. SHEESH!!!!!!!!!!
She goes on to report to me:
"She's doing so well working with OT and PT and devising ways to remember to take her meds and to eat better and stay hydrated, .. she really seems motivated as to self-care and being so cooperative. PT and OT as well as the home health nurse have agreed to stay on the case longer".
I didn't even respond. Don't care.
The only reason I'm going to the dinner out tomorrow night is because I wish to make a show that I'm not completely divorcing myself from their family and being obstinate and acting as a kid on the ball field .. in the whole, "you won't play the way I want you to play so I'm going home with my toys and so there". I don't want to make that kind of demeanor and appearance.
I really do not even want to go .. I can go that restaurant any time I please sans the whole mama drama. I had no intention, nor did either of her offspring, to drag her to a public place and make a spectacle of brow beating her, that was never on the agenda.
OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I need a vacation from all this crap!
I do have to repeatedly remind myself that I'm not an azz .. with no heart.
I am simply someone who is stepping off this crazy train. MIL has numerous options she refuses to avail herself of, and her grown adult children refuse to force the issue.
Another post it note to the forehead, ... "you are not an azz".
It would be so appropriate when getting a text from her ... SIL ... (I don't wish to be ugly) but if it's one that pertains to their mother and directions/requests for same, an auto reply that reads something to the tune of, "busy right now, try your brother".
Trying to figure that out .. and how to turn off the feature that allows others to see whether the text has been seen.
Going to get to the bottom of whether that's out there and available and get it set up. Have to, .. lots and lots of times I'm driving .. and she is the only person who I might receive a text from that I even concern myself with, as to responding really. I do get texts from DH .. but if I don't respond right away .. it's no biggie. Same with my daughters, they text me, .. some friends text me .. but I don't worry a whole lot, if I'm driving and/or otherwise occupied and don't answer real promptly.
But the # of times she has texted that I am .. for instance, in the ck out line at the grocery .. or driving, or in a conversation with someone else, etc etc. And it's some "need" (perceived need), .. I need to get this figured out and I'm going to do it. So that there can be an auto reply that reads somewhat like above.
Don't mind answering her texts . if it's something pertaining to anything but the care/welfare of their mom. And she does text .. interesting tidbits about some other something .. and those I don't mind .. (unless I'm busy .. otherwise occupied .. in which case, I respond when I can).
This will forward all inbound calls to the number you specify, it lasts until the feature has been turned off.
Open Settings and choose “Phone”
Tap “Call Forwarding” and flip to ON
In the text field box, enter the phone number you want to forward all incoming calls to
Tap back and exit out of Settings for changes to take effect.
You can turn call forward OFF by going back in and flip the call forwarding choice to OFF.
The same area has a place where you can respond with a text such as I'm on my way. I bet you can set a text up that I am working with my daughter and grandchildren today and cannot be disturbed. Please leave a message.
My sister tells me that Android devices have a similar feature. If you have a different phone, a quick search will describe how to do it yourself.
It's a relief when you don't even see the phone ring or message:)
There are supposedly apps that let you divert/call forward only certain numbers but I've never tried them.
It's coming. SIL returns home .. and begins spinning things into a tissy .. as to her mother and getting not the results she'd like out of DH ... be that because he's busy an doesn't respond ... or not as timely as she'd like as to any response, .. or be that . he responds with "I don't have time for that chit" .. either way.
The dial will swing in my direction (triangulation) .. SIL now spun like a top, and getting less than satisfactory results with the new order of biz .. she'll then put it in my ear ...
My post it note on my forehead as a constant reminder, "DEFER TO DH".
Dorker out of picture.
SIL starts spinning things up from far away. DH "i don't have time for this chit"
MIL starts needing stuff. DH cuts to the chase "I don't have time for this chit"
I wonder what SIL and MIL will eventually do?
Bottom line - MIL can make her own decisions - but that doesn't mean those decisions are FOR other people. She has options that she has refused to consider - might look better now that DH can't deal with her chit. And SIL is going to be shut down by DH.
Go Dorker's DH!!!! Go Dorker - stay strong!!
He did talk to his sister on the phone the other night, and expressed his concerns and so forth and then his mother got on the phone where he also expressed his concerns to her.
The end result of the above is that mother will be left, status quo .. and HE will be the one stepping and fetching for her ..