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@Once
I agree. It does go both ways, however: under-diagnosing (in other words, people who really ought to be diagnosed with a mental illness), and over-diagnosing (wrongly giving a label to someone who isn't mentally ill at all). Both are just as problematic.
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Way, I think one of the problems is that there can be a failure to recognize mental illness. How are we supposed to know what it looks like when it's never really talked about. The families are often ashamed and hide it, some prefer to think of their kids as addicts. Many do use drugs and alcohol to self medicate their symptoms and become dual diagnosis - addiction/alcoholism and a mental illness.

In the mi world there is "normalizing" and we do it without even knowing we are doing it. Look at all the trouble my MIL caused by telling relatives I was saying all kinds of stuff I wasn't saying - the woman truly hated me. When my son's scz revealed itself (took years because we didn't know what was going on) suddenly we could see everything with new eyes. When MIL's geriatric psych report stated "underlying psychiatric disorder" we realized that she probably had been "hearing" me saying all the things she said I had been saying. No wonder the woman hated me.

On this forum I can see people normalizing a lot a mentally unstable behavior from their elderly family members. They don't know to think any different because mom/dad has always been that way. How can we know something that we don't know? Mental illness is a tricky world.
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Prayers, Llama. They don't pay enough attention.
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Will pray for you, Llama
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Llama, good you were careful. The pharmacists are definitely not infallible. I remember they made a few mistakes with my mom's totally skipping one of her most important medications when they were blister packing it.

Of course I'll pray for you.
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Llama, glad you checked your meds. Docs and pharmacists are too busy writing and filling scripts that they sometimes miss the dangerous drug reactions.
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Yesterday I discovered that the antibiotic prescribed to me had a reaction with my migraine med. It wasn't caught by the doctor or the pharmacist, but me - the patient! Of course, ceased the antibiotic and started nasal spray. Ugh! I think that my liver will be okay after I googled the meds, but my back was hurting. Kindly pray for me. Thank you.
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Way,

The stories about the homeless with mental illness are truly heartbreaking.

Many years ago I took my dad to speech therapy three times a week after he had his stroke.

I would drop my dad off in front of the entrance so he wouldn’t have to walk far. Sometimes I had to park a few blocks away and walk back to the facility to wait for my dad.

I always passed this old homeless woman pushing her shopping cart. She looked filthy from living on the street. She looked like she was in a daze.

I decided to give her money and I called her over to my car. She looked terrified to come near me. I kept saying that I was not going to hurt her and she finally came over. I gave her $20 and told her to go get something to eat. She was quite thin.

She didn’t say a word. Just a blank stare. I don’t know if she got something to eat or not. She was reluctant to even take the money.

There are many mentally ill people living on the streets and it does break my heart to see them.
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Anna , Oncehated, Need,

It is so sad that there are so many homeless with mental health issues . Even if you could convince them to accept help, There aren’t enough resources . Maybe at least some of them are capable of doing some sort of work to feel a sense of purpose, which could motivate them to accept help .

My husband works with a woman who can’t find her son who is homeless in another city . The boy’s best friend died in a car accident senior year of high school. The boy finished 4 years of college. The mother said that after college he just couldn’t handle being an adult , he kept thinking about his friend that died . The mother told my husband she just had to let him go (to God).
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Way,

They certainly didn’t understand special needs as much back then.

I’m sure it was hard for my aunt and uncle. They divorced and my uncle moved to California. He remarried and wasn’t close to either of his children.

Sadly, divorce isn’t uncommon when there is additional stress within the family.
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Need.
I’m sure that was difficult for the parents.
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Ana and Way,

I have a cousin that ended up in an institution as a young teen. He wasn’t high functioning. The story I heard was that he tried to harm his younger sister. They lived in Florida. When we would visit my dad’s family in Florida when I was a kid, I would hear the my aunt talking about it to my dad.
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Ana.

So true , group homes can be scary . 😞
After it was obvious that our children were not impaired , My husband told me that he was relieved that our children would be independent . He said that was his biggest fear . My husband has a very high functioning autistic brother. He actually is a genius . Has a photographic memory like in the movie Rainman. They used to call people like that idiot savants . But hubby’s brother is more high functioning than the man in the movie. He was able to work as a mailman because he did not have to make decisions. Making decisions at a job was not something he could do . He drives . Always has a studio apartment . My husband does his finances for him , and has to help with some decisions . When he was a child , they didn’t have support nor did they have the autism spectrum defined or addressed in schools. And since he was so high functioning and smart they thought he was just being difficult in school and he was often scolded in school . He was also bullied later on in school . His affect is a bit odd as well . I often thought had my brother in law had the services they have now, he would have been more independent .
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@Way, You really did get a grasp of the situation, it's sad so little has changed in 40 years. While the majority of our kids aren't dangerous, the ones that are dangerous, are seriously dangerous. Yes, many were improperly institutionalized even among the scz crowd, there are those that do well on meds and some can make it without meds. Biggest problem, as I'm sure you are aware, is anosognosia. That particular symptom keeps them from being able to realize they are ill. It is very hard for people to understand that many of our mi homeless are there because they were thrown away by their families for refusing to take meds. They won't take meds because they can't comprehend that they need meds. The families can't comprehend anosognosia and toss them out in the name of tough love. Of course, sometimes the families toss them out and move away for their own safety when their family member is dangerous.

As Anabanana mentioned to you, these parents become elderly and their mi adult children often have no one to care for them. The parents' greatest worry is what will happen to my child when I die? What a burden for the elderly.
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Way, I stress for vulnerable young people who are too cognitively impaired to be independent. High risk of exploitation in group homes. My elderly aunt cared for her son at home. When he died before her we all felt sad (nobody should bury a child) and miss him, but we were relieved, having worried about what would happen to him upon her death. So many need supportive living and, too often, wind up in jail.
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As a tree-hugging animal loving hippie, I object to polluting our oceans with obnoxious people. They’re probably wearing synthetic fibres, and their tissue holds chemicals. Yuck.

I imagine constructing a glorious trebuchet, strong enough to launch them into the sun.
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I totally agree, Way. There has to be some middle ground.
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@ Oncehated .
It was circa 1984. At a very large New York state psychiatric institution with many tall buildings , most of the buildings were already empty . They were institutionalizing less people . Having them return to the community on meds . As a student nurse , they had me sit in on a discharge meeting with the patient who was 20 years old , his parents , the care team …psychiatrist , social worker , nurse etc .
The 20 year old male lived with his parents and he had molested the little girl next door. And they were sending this guy home to live there again. Now this was before sex offenders had to register mind you . But I was sitting there observing and wanted to scream “ Why would have have this guy living next door to that little girl again ? “
And the entire time this offender was staring at me in the most uncomfortable way , weird grins , licking his lips . I was the same age as him . I have no doubt he committed sex offenses again .

Now I know that many people were inappropriately institutionalized , that of course is sad . I also saw on another ward . A lot of older people that their parents had dropped off in the 1930’s, 1940’s and 1950’s because they had Down’s syndrome or were challenged intellectually ( previously called retarded ) . There were no group homes at that time I guess . Some of these people were there since they were early teens and that was all they knew so they kept them there . They felt having them leave or going to a group home would be traumatic for them . Most simply had no family as they were dropped off and forgotten ., and this institution was their lifelong home . These people were not dangerous.

We need to find the middle ground. I knew that from what I saw nearly 40 years ago with my own eyes .
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Way2tired, then you really do understand , some of them are dangerous and these poor families can't get any help. Sorry I had missed your nursing experience paragraph.
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Need, my husband’s “ Flight to nowhere”, for his least favorite people always goes down in the ocean . I don’t know why.
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Thanks Way2tired I thought maybe so. There is a reason scz was originally dementia praecox - early dementia
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Way,

So, now your husband has my wheels turning? Would you rather blow up in an airplane or sink on a ship?

Or wait, ask your husband if he wants to make a joint list with me of the people that we could send on a one way space flight to Mars!!! 😆
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on a bad day here, getting bent over and poured out sounds pretty good

somehow that is coming out wrong
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Oncehated. So true . I said adults ( not just the elderly ) on purpose because I am aware of those situations as well.

They should open up the mental hospitals that they shut down. Sorry if I sound archaic . The dangerous ones need to be on locked wards again .

I remember when I did my psych rotation in nursing school. It was scary . I was on a locked ward with 3O men, some had raped and/or murdered .
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@ Need. A lot of old people like cruise ships. My FIL loves them . That’s how I got the idea .
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I look like a teapot!
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Need , Anna .

As hilarious as my husband is, He has an inappropriate morbid side . For about 30 years he has always had a fictional airplane in his head the goes down with his least favorite people on board . A lot of the passengers are politicians . He numbers the passengers from 1 to 10. The worst person being number 1.
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Ana,

😆 LOL

DIL,

You’re right, it can go either way.

Way, looks like we are going to need ships for the bad caregivers too!
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On another forum we are working to help people who are trapped into living situations with adult children who are "impossible and mentally deranged" There is no help for these families either. Way too many of them can't even get their kids on disability because there is no way to get them evaluated. For some of them, their lives are daily nightmares where the parents fear for their lives or the lives of their other children. These poor folk have to sleep behind heavy bolted doors to be able to feel safe enough to get any rest.

In a lighter note regarding mirrors - as if it wasn't bad enough that I have to look at my crooked arm resulting from my broken shoulder BUT when I try to do the PT - the therapist's mirror MUST be some sort of fun house mirror. I look short and squat AND I have a very unattractive bend in my arm.
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Venting, I keep hoping the fat old broad who swallowed me will finally barf me out.

Way2tired, I immediately imagined sharks following ships, watching for wanderers who go overboard.

I know - I have an inappropriate and morbid sense of humour. The torch and pitchfork mob may PM me for directions to my lair.
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