Needing to vent: Our parents are like children.

Thanks pinto. Yes I know what you are saying but no, I haven't heard of Sundowners, that's a new one for me. My mom's doctor did testing on her and he is the one who diagnosed her with Alzheimers so I just took him at his word, but I will google Sundowners Syndrome and check it out. Thanks for your help as well. everyone on this site has been so nice and helpful.

hey everyone, I have a question my Mom desperately needs her hair done, but cannot withstand a trip to the salon and setting there for hours. Is there any way of finding out if someone might come to your home and do her hair? if anyone has any info for me I would deaply appreciate it. Thanks pintos

pintos, i know in our city the local nursing home has a salon in it, i'm sure if you live in a big or small city but i would start in a place like that i'm sure the salons in your area could point you in the right direction. Your a wonderful daughter for caring ..

PINTOS- you did not upset me with what I deal with on a daily basis with the husbamd nothing any of you dear friends could get me upset I was just trying to give you ideas because I know what it is to deal with the potty chair bucket. Also the place I go to get my hair done has a womem- a hairdresser who on hwe own goes into a lady's home who can not get and maybe someone in a salon near you would do- everyone in our area are trying to earn extra money now-take care feiend.

Pintos......Just found this site and read your post about getting your mom,s hair done. I've been caring for my mother for about a year now. I learned to cut her hair on google...lol......Just google haircuts...It's not exactly professional, but I'm getting much better at it, and mom is grateful because she can't leave the house.

roxie, if its any comfort in knowing that i have the same situation with my 83 yr.old mother. including the diaherra. that really puts me over the edge. i have lost it a few times. she has even walked into her bedroom which has a bathroom connected to it and she pulled her pants down and peed on the floor twice, and then said i didn't do that , no way it wasn't me, ect. the complete denial drives me crazy..she sits all day and plays with her shoes, and her velcro pockets. i hate velcro now..she goes from one chair to the other all day. she won't watch tv or listen to music or read or look at magazines. she just fittles with her clothes, and picks at her hands that have age spots one them. she picks till there bleeding which doens't take much with her thin skin. I look so forward to the day ending you have no idea!! and grocery shopping has become my way out of the house. this is so sad. to think there may be years of this to come. and what about my life. i finailly have no children home, or grandkids thank goodness. i couldn't take care of another person. i have let myself fall apart. both physically and mentally. there are times i can't even talk clearly anymore. because i am with her so much that i sound like her. We were never really close,i was to my dad. he passed away 19 yrs ago of pancreate cancer. we took care of him too but cancer is different. i had more compassion for an illness like that. but dementia destoys both the patient and the caregiver. i am so over whelmed with it all. its been almost 9 mos. i don't even look forward to getting up anymore. i know what there is to expect daily. the routine is killing me and my spirit. we have hospsice help mondays and thurs. i too have noticed that several of my (friends) dont' call or anything anymore. i have a son that helps me, especially at night. we have had to lock mom in her room so shge doesn't get into things. and then she will stand at the door and rattle the handels till someone comes and tells her to go back to bed. god help me if i get dementia. just kill me. honestly. i do not want to do this to my family again. i have been taking care of her house which is 25 miles one way, and i have to go back and forth. it gets me out of the house but its only to do more work. taking over someone elses fiances and bills is hard,. and very aggrervating at times. i have to say that most of the time i lie and say i am her in order to get anything taken care of over the phone. the crazy questions that business ask for her to answer, and then if you try to help her they won't help you. some times it is just too much. i want my lonely life i had before this so bad..i cry at least twice a week, over stupid things that just push me over the edge. i feel like i am going nuts too. i can't thank my husband enought for taking her in with us and all the extra drama that comes with it. i would not be so agreeable if it was reversed. his mother lives 3000 miles away, and his brothers are doing there part for her. but i am a lone here with a woman i don't know anymore, and she doesn't know me most of the time. i have already gone throught the you are stealing my money and i hate you, because i won't let her drink more than1 cup of coffee a day. because of the diaharrea issue. no way. and the toilet paper she goes throught is unbeleivable!!! i hate poop!!!! i just wanted to vent and tell anyone else out there that it seems to be the same for all of us. wow this is not what i invisioned retirement to be...i would work 4 jobs if i didn't have to do this anymore. but i made my dad a promise that is would take care of her and so i am..

Joycasa, I know how you feel, my mom is not that bad yet but I do think that she is on her way. And she to will do something or say something then deny it and say she did not then she will get mad at me. It never ends! pintos.

Thanks everyone for the Hair ideas Ill try calling some around my area tomorrow, and pinkcaddy Ill google haircuts maybe I too can learn, I did cut it about a month ago did not know what I was doing but figured that I could not make it look any worse then what it was. She also needs haircoloring and set. Pintos.

Joycasa, I feel for you so much. I hate to say this, but you probably need to put your mom in assisted living, nursing home, something to keep your own sanity. I too do not know my father anymore. He has become a complete stranger to me, and lately I find it very hard to be compasionate. He is mad at me all the time over stupid little things, like changing the bathroom towels. This confuses himpul I guess, because they are clean. I have become obsessed with cleaning. I change the bath towels daily, clean the bathroom my poor 12 year old daughter has to share with him 4 times a day sometimes. He has started to lose control of his bowels, which he says that I try and make him feel guilty about. I have never said anything except, get clean clothes and take a shower, and I will clean up the bathroom, which he insists he has not messed up. His eyesight is so bad, he does not see the fecal matter he leaves behind. I know he tries, but it is not enough. I am obsessive compulsive now, I'm afraid one of us will get sick because of him. I am going to put him in assisted living as soon as I get guardianship/ conservatorship. Maybe he will be happier, since he seems to hate me just for trying to help him. I too am being accused of stealing money, and those precious family heirlooms, from the mail order catalogs. LOL When I get the chance, they are all going in the garbage. I've decided I'm going to change his bath towel every single day, just to piss him off. Even though you made your Dad a promise, you cannot risk your own health, and sanity. I'm certain your Dad will forgive you, and understand you are only human, not superhuman. Take Care and Good Luck

Is any type of assisted living paid for by the state? or feds? I can see a time when my mom will be more than I can handle but I can't afford it on my own :( The stories are so sad and it's so frustrating when we try to do the right thing. Why does it have to be so hard? I just wonder :( Hang in there everyone. It will get better some how :)

joycasa,
I am so sorry to hear you are having such a rough time. I feel many here will identify with your feelings.
A few months back, I was feeling like you do now. From posting my feelings and listening to feedback, I feel like I have my sanity back.
One of the things I decided to do was put myself in her shoes from time to time. It at least helped me to be a little more patient. I also started changing the way I did things. Like, if the Velcro is driving you crazy, get snaps. When she is picking at her nose(dry skin) I ask if she wants her lotion. Or ask if she put her lotion on today. It tells me when she is nervous or anxious.
I am going to take a risk here and say something that I pray does not offend you, but hope you take a little time to think about. When people make deathbed promises it is a very emotional time for all concerned. And maybe I am getting into semantics here, but taking care of someone does not always mean living in the home. Sometimes it means to find the best place for your elder, making sure they are very well taken care of in a facility. Or finding a respite facility where she can go a few days a month and give you a break.
Possibly we have to make decisions based on the here and now, and not back then. Guilt is a feeling that is preceded by the way we think about things. Healthy guilt tells us when we are doing something that is not right.
The kind of guilt that leads to resentment, is not doing anyone any good.
You just sound so overwhelmed and am so glad you told us the way you are feeling. Feelings are not right or wrong, it is what we do based on those feelings that are healthy for us. We all need time away to regroup, breathe, cry, laugh, and kick a post.
I can feel how overwhelmed you are and I know how hard it is to get it together long enough to make a healthy choice. But you have done this much, and it sounds like you desperately need a break.
Just try to do one thing for yourself everyday. Take a walk when it gets too much. I go outside and look at the sky, listen to the birds, watch the baby calves. I realize I have a near perfect place to do these things, and am very grateful for that. But if I were stuck in the house, I would turn on the radio and dance, sing, and get my mind off things just for a few minutes.
Think about some of your options to saving your health and sanity. I found when I was trying to think of things to do to keep from going crazy some of the anxiety was gone because I wasn't so focused on the things that upset me.
When we are feeling this way it is so hard if not impossible to have empathy for how miserable our elders lives have become.
I pray you get some relief soon.Thank you for sharing how you feel. Take care of yourself and let us know how you are doing. God Bless

Lindam-you are a blessing to this group

Hi Joycasa...I can really identify w/lots you have said. Especially about the lying and the poop, and my heart really goes out to you. It's rough, I know, because I'm going through it myself. Mom isn't quite as bad as your mom is yet, but I know what's coming. Been taking care of mom for about a year now, and some days can just scream. She's going deaf, but refuses to wear hearing aids, she has emaculet degeneration so her eye sight is getting worse. She can't walk all that well, because her right foot is turning in on her, which keeps her off balance. She's 92 going on about 5 mentally, and I have to tell her what to do constantly, which I find very hard to tolerate, because she's my mom for Gods sake. I'm suppose to be able to talk to my mom and get advice from her like I use to do. Now it's the other way around, more and more each day, and it's really driving me bats.......She also has a hiatal hernia, which over the years has gotten worse. She was in the hospital for about a month, because her stomach was going into her chest because of the hernia. They put a stomach tube in her because after the operation to put her stomach where it belongs (out of her chest) she couldn't swallow. Well to make a long story shorter the hospital put her in a nursing home to tube feed her, and also get her some physical therapy for her walking, and all she did was cry the whole time she was there. I found out that you have to be strong to servive in a nursing home, and my mom is just not strong enough to do so. She always was very weak mentally. So if the time ever comes when I will have no choice but to put her in a nursing home I know she will not be able to make it. Unless her mind goes completely. Sorry didn't really mean to ramble on like this. Just want you Joycase, and all others on this site to know I do feel your pain, and understand what everyone is going through. Thank goodness for this site, and all you wonderful people.

Thank you all for sharing your stories. It drew both tears and smiles from me! I'm in a different sort of situation, but it has really been tearing both me and my sister up emotionally. Our Mom went from being a very active and independent person and coming down for a doctor visit last March - to now she is in a nursing home. I never thought our Mom would be in a place like that and it hurts so much. She had stents put in last April and then was bleeding internally from a stomach growth that they can't operate on and then she had a stroke - all this within a few weeks time. They first sent her from the hospital into a "rehabilitation" home which is a nursing home. We had hoped that she could recover enough to be able to stand and pivot onto a potty chair and use a wheelchair (and then we could bring her home), but that never happened. She also has developed dementia/Alzheimer's. We recently found out that her "big" therapy was stopped in November because they feel she won't progress any further. She's bedridden and is only moved to a geri chair which is like a bed on wheels where they can roll her down to the dining room and into a shower room.

This has all happened so fast, our minds are still in shock. Now we're having to face the fact that I don't believe we'll ever get to bring Mama home and I can't bear that thought! I think we're just all living some kind of pretend life and when the reality gets too close . . . the tears and panic starts!

I lay in bed at night and think and think - but, it does no good. I try to figure out a way to bring Mama home, but my sister says that it would be too expensive. I was injured a couple of years ago and can't lift or pull so I'm not of any good to help with the physical duties. My sister can't do the physical part either. She thinks that we would have to pay someone for round the clock care. I think we could come up with a little over $3,000 a month for help, but she says that won't be enough.

When I talk to Mama, I forget sometimes about the dementia and for a while, it's just a regular conversation and then suddenly she'll ask if I've talked to Daddy today and then it's like someone jerks a rug out from under me! Daddy has been gone for over 10 years now. Sometimes she has a nurse call and tell me she's ready for me to come and get her and I fumble for words. All I can come up with is that we can't come and get her until her doctor releases her. Other times, she thinks she's been at home and wants to know when I'm coming as she's been cooking a roast all day. It hurts so bad! We play a fantasy game and I smile and laugh with her and we pretend to add food to the roast, etc., but there's no roast! Sometimes I feel like I'm falling to pieces, but I can't let Mama see or know that. She's always been there for me and now I feel like I'm letting her down, because I can't find a way to bring her home!

She's been at that place since early June and I wonder if she realizes that. Sometimes she'll tell me that she's never been in the hospital this long before, but I don't really know how long she thinks she's been there. And the worst part is, when I visit with her and it's time to leave and I kiss her and wave goodbye and then have to walk down that long hallway and out the door where I smell fresh air!! The guilt is overwhelming! I went out to eat a couple of weeks ago and as I was eating, I realized it was something that Mama loved and then suddenly I couldn't swallow. The holidays come and go - the sun shines - life goes on and seems to drag me and my sister along and we both feel so guilty we can't stand it! I ended up in the hospital a couple of months ago and it was stress related - but, I can't find a way to get rid or deal with the stress. If I think I feel bad, all I have to do is think of where Mama is and I could beat myself up!

I'm so sorry that all of you are having such struggles too. I do want to offer something I have learned. We were told by attorney after attorney that our Mother's house and assets would be going to medicaid to help pay for her care at the rehabilitation home. Of course we heard all about the look back period, etc. However, after some praying - I found an "elder" attorney which is different from estate attorneys, etc. Through him we found that because social security finally decided because of my injury a couple of years ago that I'm eligible for disability social security - I then became a "disabled" child (even though I'm an adult) which qualified me to be able to receive my mother's assets, cash and quit claim deed to her home with no look back period or penalty. This was all done even with my mother in the nursing home. He also filed through the VA and there is money because of my Dad being a veteran (even though he is deceased) to help pay for her care. So, please check out all avenues before giving up your parent's assets to the government.

In reading your posts, I see the strength - emotional and physical that it takes to care for your loved ones. Maybe I needed that to realize that it is impossible for me to be able to bring Mama home and take care of her. But, I still can't help but wonder if I'm missing some way some how that I could get help for her at home. It would mean so much to have her home! On the other side, I remember my prayers over the years for Mama to not worry and have happy memories and then I realize that even though Mama is in a nursing home - at times, she thinks she is at home cooking and taking care of her loved ones - so maybe, God in His mercy has blessed us more than we realized!

Thanks for listening! I'll be checking back to see how everyone is doing! God bless each and every one of you!!

AngelDove,
I'm so sorry to hear about your situation. My mom isn't as bad as your mom yet, but I don't look forward to that day either, so I don't envy what you are going through. It's going to be hard when I do lose my mom so I can totally sympathize with your situation. I just wish you lots of prayers and hope you can find a way to bring your mom home.

I guess that this is a vent, or gripe, or whatever....just writing it down and telling strangers might help. I'm 45 years old, have a 15 year old daughter at home, divorced and both my parents are living with me. My mom is diebetic and my dad is extremely overweight, has some heart problems, but other than that, they are relatively healthy. They live with me because they can't afford to live anywhere and pay any rent. They have soc. sec. but Mom's meds, car payments, insurances, etc. take most of the money.
I love my parents but this is just not working!!! My daughter and I moved from Florida last year; my parents moved too because they couldn't afford mortgage payments and lost their house. (My dad was working a lawn maintenance business, but stopped doing it because he's to out of shape and he had 2 minor heart attacks that he didn't even know about)
I work and pay the bills, and my job doesn't pay alot so I never have any money. I know that I sound selfish posting here with everyone else having medical problems with their parents, but this is stressful too. I feel like my life is over and I'll be sitting with my parents for the next 15 years watching Wheel of Fortune.
My older daughter (that lives in Florida) is going to have a baby in June...I'm so excited!!!! I'm looking for a job in Florida and my youngest daughter and I are trying to move back so I can be close to my grandson. My parents are trying to guilt me with "what are we going to do", "how can we live", etc. I told them they could come back to Florida with us, but they want to be in North Carolina so I told them to get a place of their own. I feel like a terrible, horrible daughter.
My parents go to Ohio to see my brothers 2-3 times per year, so I don't think that they are as broke as my dad says. I think he wants a free ride.
I have a sister and three brothers, but they are no help.
Ok, I'm done. I feel better. I'm thankful for all my blessings, that my parents are still here and I can spend time with them. Thanks all for listening.

Well, I just found out my dad has to fast for some lab tests at the heart center on the same day that my mom has an appointment with her heart doctor. They have both had heart attacks and Dad has a defibulator. So, I guess Dad is going to drive himself and I will take Mom to her appointment. I am grateful to have both of my parents, but it sure is difficult when they both have ailments at the same time. I am just going to keep working on my medical transcription class and hang in there and thank goodness for the few spare moments that I have spare time to enjoy the company of friends.

Thanks

Dear ladyporcupine, will Dad talk to you and share info about his finances so you can help him plan?

Last night I spent a long time writing the biggest vent, and was kind of embarrassed about it. But it didn't post, even though I had logged in first. Phew! My husband said, "Some things only your computer should know..." lol

Hi ladyporcupine...See u are in quite a pickle.....Have you looked into HUD apartments for your parents to move into?? Think it means Housing Urban Development....It's run by the govt. and they only charge u what you can afford. So if your parents are only on SS they will get very low rent. Mom lived in a HUD apartment before she couldn't take care of herself any longer, and she was very happy there. People were great and the management took really good care of the apartments.....Try it...Look up HUD in the phone book, maybe in the Govt section.....Just a thought.....Take care.....:)

Ladyporcupine, don't feel bad - it sounds like you have a legitimate concern. If your parents can't afford a place, that's where government housing comes in. It sounds to me like they need a guiding hand to the right agency and then let the agency take over. As for your mom's medicine, there are also agencies to help with that. Or you can go straight to the manufacturers and they will often supply the medicine free of charge. When I was waiting on my social security and couldn't afford my medicine, one of them being Actos at $225.00 per month - I discovered the actos website and saw that there was help with the medicine. They sent me by mail a 3 months supply and another form to fill out if I needed more. Thankfully, my social security finally started so I didn't need the help after that. Your parent's situation can be depressing for them and for you as well. But, you need to regroup and think of other options which will allow everyone to move forward.

Sandi, thank you for your kind reply! It truly means a lot!

Lisa, sounds like you're on the right track!

Anne . . . I know what you mean about the venting and writing! LOL! Sometimes, it just feels good to let it all out . . . even if no one else sees it. But, if you want to talk - as you can tell, there are friends here to listen!

Angel dove, what a horrible experience! Some of our situations happened fast, like yours, and it's devastating. Some are slow, like Alzheimer's. I've experience both.

Thanks for the tip about elder attorneys. You found a good one, and thank God were able to save assets for yourself because of your disability. I will have to remember that, as I have a disabled son.

Everyone, be very careful to check out the elder attorney or estate attorney. Ask for references, as you would anything else. You, Angel, found a good one and got what is due to you. God bless you and your family. Thanks for the encouragement and please keep coming back to the site. We all need each other.

Carol

Hi everyone, I see we are going thru one more day. that is encouraging, my post is especially for Ladyporcupine.

I moved my parents here over two years ago from Baltimore I live in Ga. I have a brother who lives in MD about 1 1/2 hours drive from where they lived and he hadn't been to see them in 10 years. When I lived in N C I would go up at least every 3 months and it was a good 8 hour trip. I even brought them down for a two week vacation. Now mind you Ihave never had a great relationship either of them but I knew from the time I was a little girl I would always have to be there and there is a lot of stuff inbetween these years that needn't go into. Well soon after I brought them here and Ihad everything ready I knew they only made a little bit of social security to live on because neither of them ever wanted to work they want the good things in life but don't want to work, well I'm so sick of working I could just throw up. Anyway this May Dad will be dead 2 years so I had some time with him 8 months and it was a good thing I brought them here. I got them HUD houseing reduced electric, food stamps etc the apartment was two bedrooms and very nice and the land lady had their rent down to 109.00 a month they had inspection every three months, which my mother hated which meant she had to get off her ass and do something. Well she came up with this outrageous story that I investigated that the 87 year old lady next door with dementia was having men in and they played a band almost every night and she just couldn't stand the noise anymore so could she move in with me. Well there was no band i was hoping there was I sure miss dancing and the men were relatives who took turns with their wives staying with the old lady. So mother has moved in with me since then I took her to a hearing doc and had hearing tested, her hearing is so bad she isn't even a candidate for a hearing aid she can't see won't have the cataracts removed and I noticed this week, she has forgotten how to use the oven, can't remember how to use the microwave, plus lots of other things. She is a self centered person always has been and I do get frustrated about two min after I walk into the door. I am two years to retirement and hope I get to make it but I sure would love a respite. I've been working full time since I was 15 and I'm tired of working especially when all she does is sit and If you can find someone to help you that is the best thing to do seems all my life I've been moving my parents to and fro gets old after awhile. If all else fails and your mother is on medicare/medicaid to to walmart for those 4.00 prescriptions I had to have my doctor rewrite my prescriptions so I could do that and I have insurance but this way I save close to 800.00 a year. Since I've moved my parents down here and have been going like the energizer bunny I now have High blood Pressue, 30 % blockage of my heart high cholesterol and take something for my nerves and to sleep and of course menopause, I'm like a walking pharmacy. LOL I take more medicine than my mother but than she knows more than the doctor does so she isn't going to take anything she doesn't agree with him about and it doesn't make any difference what doctor or what state. Also, its my fault she has lost her husband and has to live like this which by the way Ihave a very nice home or should say I had a very nice home until she got so destructive I should have left them in MD. You know what I think thats the first right thing she said in her entire life. Good luck to you. Live your life you have your daughter to think about and these are very formative years for her. don't let her grow up thinking you thought more of your parents than her you brought her into this world love her to death. I hope I have encouraged you somewhat Upward and onward. Neon

Don't know where to start. today granny asked had i been to see my sons duplex (he has been there for 8months) he is in college and about an hour away, i said no, she said why, i said i can't leave you that long, an hour there an hour back then she said i knew we shouldn't moved here. i told you that before we moved which she did not back then 5 and a half years ago. things were much different when we moved grandparents in they cooked, washed clothes, did dishes etc. the last few years they went downhill i've been doing everything. all i did was try to keep them happy and this is the smartass remark i get. if i knew it was going to be like this i am not sure what i would have done. nobody else was willing to help in any way. they didn't want to go to a nursing home or assisted living and i couldn't move in with them i have kids and a husband. this was the best solution i wish she would appreciate it. sorry for the gripe. Dare

Dare, here is a BIG HUG for you, you need it. I feel your pain when it comes to not feeling appreciated. You are such an angel, taking care of your granny, and all with a husband and kids. Just this morning my dad said to me again for the millionth time, "I'm going to lose my house, my tools, my gold, my .....WAAAAAAAAH!" I said don't worry Dad you're not losing anything yet, I'm trying to keep that from happening. He said "you don't care!" "You don't care about me, WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!" No.....I just upturned my husband's and children's lives, and the entire household, to move you from out of state, so that I could take care of you 24/7. I give up! Not really, just venting. When will we ever learn to not let it hurt us? I guess, never, we're just human. Take Care Dare, even if granny, or anyone else doesn't appreciate you, we do. Naus

Naus, thanks so much, i just don't understand why they have to be so hurtful. and really think it is just fine to say cruel things. She thinks no one should get offended, but lord forbid anyone say something to her. she pouts and gets anxiety attacks or acts like it, so i don't talk back, that only makes it worse for me. oh happy mardi gras i am in Louisiana can't go guess why lol. Dare

Dare, I know what you mean, I just don't know whether to sh_t, or go blind sometimes around here. It's like playing russian rhoulette. LOL mardi gras would be fun!

Naus and Dare, I feel your pain, I think its because we do go out of our way to do the right thing, because no one else wants the responsibility and all we want is a little consideration and when they act like that and you have to walk around on egg shells all the time its like we are rubber bands stretch us out to see if we break. Half the time I don't think they know what they are saying and as human beings they can only see their side of the story. Take three kids all playing the same game they will each take their own experience and voice their opinion and each one will be different. Hang in there this too shall end. Its hard I know this is my third go around but with Dad it was not like this he did what I told him and God Bless him he died, I don't think my mother has long for this world either maybe another year than it will be done. Than I am going out and raise so much hell although I try to sneak some in here and there right now just to relieve the stress people will look at me and go "whats wrong with her" LOL. Hugs and love to you both. Neon

Hey i want to raise hell with you and Naus and the rest of us on this site. we all deserve a big party. why do they stretch us so thin? they enjoy it. granny is not crazy she know exactly what she is doing when she says her sh-t. i think she is the best actress in the world.

I raised some hell the other day, if you could call it that. My dad was being a stinker, and sulking in his room. He's always turning my tv off. I'm not used to dead silence in my household, hasn't been silent in 25 years. Dad loves to sit in silence and stare into space. I had enough of his silence. I put on a CD, and cranked it up. Let's see, some Brooks and Dunn, Rascal Flats, I had me a little boot scootin boogie! I think even Dad enjoyed it because he came out of his cave to sit on the couch next to the subwoofer. Yeeeehaw! I thought about playing some Beastie Boys, or Korn, but I don't think his nerves could have taken it. LOL

Hello all.
Sorry about whining a couple of days ago. I should have typed it and deleted it!!!! Thanks for all of the advice that you gave me. I really appreciated it.
Karen