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With the Thanksgiving, and possibly Christmas, holidays coming up, my husband and I were thinking of possibly going out to dinner with my daughter who lives with us rather than preparing a huge meal at home. Two of our three children are out of state, and due to various circumstances, won't be coming home for the holiday, which is totally fine and we understand and respect that. My dilemma is my 90 year old father, who is currently living in an assisted living facility. He is pleasantly confused and incontinent. He wears Depends, but argues, and refuses usually, about getting up to go the the restroom to try and go every hour or so, but then ends up totally blowing through them and making a catastrophic mess all over the place including chairs, the floor, all over the place in public waiting rooms, and then I have to drive him home when he is covered with this mess. The thought of having to bring an entire set of clothes with me and trying to get him cleaned up and redressed in a public restroom every time I have to take him some where is not worth the stress. Even getting him to doctor's appointments just isn't worth the stress it causes me. At a recent appointment, he took himself to the restroom, had a bowel movement that came up his back and out the top of his pants, all over every where in the bathroom - which had to be totally shut down until they could get it cleaned up - and then came out and sat in one of the chairs in the waiting room like that. Any time he floods out his pants, he refuses to get cleaned up and just argues that he is fine and that it will dry. I feel like a total loser for just wanting a nice, calm, pleasant day out with my family for a change. What is a daughter to do?

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Oh yes 😖😫😭
A giant sigh.. from one daughter to another.
Lived experience of Code Yellow & Code Brown in public facilities... Took that trip - got the Tshirt as they say!

Just wanted to say you are NOT alone. Hang in there.

My brain is also fraying at the edges thinking about upcoming events..

Thank you for asking this question!

Let's see what the good folk here can suggest! (Besides the obvious one: leave him at his residence & visit him there. Only there. From now on).
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XenaJada Nov 2022
This really is all one can do. Sadly.
maybe bring him a yummy plate from the restaurant.
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Get over the feeling that you need to include him in everything you do! Just tell him nobody is coming home for the holidays this year so you won't be doing anything special... you can truthfully commiserate if he complains that things aren't what they used to be. No doubt his facility will provide a nice thanksgiving meal, plan on sharing it there with him.
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Seems like he needs more than Assisted Living at this point.

But that's not what you asked. What is a daughter to do? Go out for a nice Thanksgiving meal with your daughter. Your father is going to have a nice meal at the AL, correct? That should be sufficient.

Your description of what happens when you take him out sounds absolutely miserable for you, the rest of your family, and whatever restaurant you choose.
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Cover999 Nov 2022
Maybe he could remember to say "Pooped Em" Pooped my Pants I pooped Em" like Rod Stewart did on South Park
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Why not go to dinner, enjoy your meal then go visit. Bring a dessert to have with dad. He will be less stressed and confused. Or if you truly want him to be included in the meal bring a meal to the AL and ask that you be provided a private dining room area and have a family get together then.
You can still have a nice, calm, pleasant day, out with your family you just have to accept either a change in venue or change the participants and how you do things.
Many people with dementia get frightened in a change in the routine and that can make them more argumentative, anxious.

Personally it sounds like dad is a bit more than "pleasantly confused" and that MC should be something that is on your very close radar. And I would probably begin to minimize trips out as much as possible.
And I do think it is time that he needs more supervision in the bathroom so do not let him go on his own, go with him and help him, don't ask him just go with him.
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sp19690 Nov 2022
Could you eat if someone smelled like poop? I couldn't.
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You're not a loser. Leave dad in the assisted living. It would be terrible to take him to a restaurant and have him have a blow out there. Honestly he shouldn't even be going to the doctors office at this point like this. Feces is dangerous and can spread all kinds of diseases to him and others.

I hope the doctors office threw out that chair he sat in. Did the doctor even comment on your dad being covered in poop?

I wonder how your dad would feel about this if he was in his right mind.
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@Sp19690 I did not say anything about eating with anyone that smelled like "poop"
What I did say was to go to dinner with the family THEN go to the facility with a dessert.
or
Arrange a dinner AT the facility in a private dining room.
From kittykatt's question it seems that the problem is when he leaves the facility. Even if there were an incident at the facility there is staff that will take care of the situation and take dad to his room and clean him up.
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sp19690 Nov 2022
But if dad poops himself regularly chances of him or his room smelling like poop are pretty good.
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He’s in an AL, and that’s really his “home base” and that’s for A GOOD REASON.

Please DO NOT categorize yourself as a “total loser”! Doing so makes neither his situation better NOR YOURS.

There are some situations in aging care that have NO HAPPY SOLUTIONS.

I think your father’s situation is CLEARLY ONE OF THEM.

The silver lining is that he is a resident of a facility that knows and understands his situation, and is prepared to deal with it.

“What is a daughter to do?” You ask? A daughter is to be a mother and a wife, enjoy a peaceful, stress free holiday with her spouse and daughter, then around supper time make a peaceful visit to Dad with pie or cookies or sliced turkey or whatever he may (or may not) associate with the holiday, enjoy a period of cheerful chat with him, and go home, knowing that you BOTH had a holiday of appropriate celebration and reminiscing.

DON’T make this problem yours to solve. It is not fair to you, and it seems as though he is oblivious to it. When he MUST go out (doctor’s appointment?) see if you can arrange for him to be taken by paid assistants. Again, NOT your job to do this for doctor’s appointments either.

Happy Thanksgiving, however you plan it!
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Do yourself and the public a favor - leave him at the AL. Enjoy your holiday with your husband and daughter. You visit him at AL the day before or day after if you want to.

My stepson owns a restaurant that is popular for family holiday dinners. A couple of years ago an elderly man, with his family, had a huge blowout in the dining room. My stepson sent diners to another restaurant and paid for their meals. He had to close for two days while everything was cleaned. It was a big loss for him and and a huge expense.
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Isthisrealyreal Nov 2022
That sucks.

My friends daughter was in the playhouse at McDonald's and proudly, loudly announced (she was done potty training, mommy thought) that she peepeed. It was astonishing how fast that playhouse was cleared and shut down.

It made me think how many children just keep playing and it dries and there ya go.

I am OCD about hand washing and touching things in public. The seats and menus in many restaurants are science experiments and the dirtiest thing in any restaurant. Obviously your son is a very good business man to take the necessary steps in this situation. I don't think it is always handled properly, so kudos to him.
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Good for dad.
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Becky04469 Nov 2022
wCover, What's good about it?
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I don't know of a facility that doesn't do holiday dinners that family are invited to. Usually they are not on the holiday, giving family the opportunity to celebrate with their LO and then have the actual day of the holiday to do as they want. Find out what his facility has planned and then participate. Then go enjoy the dinner with your hubby and daughter.

I would like to tell you, it is completely okay for you to make arrangements for your dad to be seen in his facility. You do not have to transport him anywhere. When people get to the point that a crapped, blown out situation is not a situation, they need to NOT subject others to this. It is a biohazard and you should refuse to subject anyone, yourself included, to this.

I know his brain is broken and he can't help himself but, you, as his advocate can and should. You don't deserve to be put in these situations. Find him in house services and give yourself a break.
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I am surprised the AL has not told you that Dad is beyond their care. Dad is also beyond allowing him to use a bathroom without someone accompanying him. Maybe find a nice LTC facility that takes Medicaid in case needed in the future. There is a Doctor or two affiliated with them so no more taking Dad to the doctors. Dentists and Eye doctors come in too.

Now for the holidays, ALs have some kind of dinner for residents the weekend before the holiday. At Moms family is invited. Have dinner there with him and on the Holiday enjoy your meal out. You have the right to a nice relaxing dinner. Last thing I would want to do is toilet a LO during the meal. Your Dad will not know the difference. Don't say anything to him see if he asks. If he does, just say with just the 3 of you, u spent a quiet day at home. Don't even acknowledge the holiday unless he does.
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Yeah, no. Definitely DO NOT take dad out to dinner during the holidays, why would you even consider doing such a thing? Have a nice dinner with him at his AL, or bring dinner TO him at his AL and have a festive time there instead of subjecting yourselves to such a situation! I'm shocked the AL hasn't asked him to leave and move into Memory Care, because this level of incontinence combined with being 'pleasantly confused' sounds like full fledged dementia to me.

Wishing you the best of luck having a nice holiday.
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It’s ok to want to enjoy your family at dinner without Dad. You clearly describe excessive, delicate needs that are not realistically managed in public, much less where many people dine. Visit him after and don’t even bring it up. You’ve been an angel for taking this on for so long and enough is enough.
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Inquire if his AL will have a celebration for the residents and their family for Thanksgiving and Christmas. If so, go there. Please do not take him into public places anymore since he has a fecal incontinence problem. This is a health hazard as well as an embarrassment for him and you. It's not nice for the place of business, whether it be a restaurant or whatever, to have to deal with the mess, the odors, and the spills, etc. Pleasant outings with him and the family are not possible anymore, and it's time to accept that.
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You have many good suggestions here. I agree about having the holiday meals with him at the facility.

About his incontinence, try adding an overnight pad to the Depends. If he goes to the bathroom every three hours, the pad can just be removed. If the Depends also gets wet, then pad and Depends have to be removed, but usually the clothes will remain dry.

My husband with Alzheimer's is incontinent. In bed he wears an overnight padded underwear (from Because Market) and the Tena overnight pad. I slit the pad along the bottom so it drains into the padding of the underwear. He can now make it through the night, and I don't have to get him up at three AM.
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Becky04469 Nov 2022
He has fecal incontinence not just urine.
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KittyKatt, replies flew in while I slept.

Are you nodding, in sadness but acceptance that the time has come for Dad to stay in?

Or still hopeful for what you had - the family enjoying a restaurant all together?

My lot is at this crux too. The person suffering incontinence doesn't have insight - same.
I am DONE cleaning up bio-mess in tight spaces - same.

As another tiny step between going out & no more outings, we are trialling bringing a Support Worker.

Now, your Dad's situation may be just too much regardless of whoever is cleaner-uper..? But I thought I'd mention it. Some ALs have Aides willing to pick up a few hours private care on the side. I've even seen one advertise this on their noticeboard.

If this is not successful, on to the next level. I wrote these to help me a few years back;
1. The whole home cooked extravaganza over entire day
2. Everyone brings a plate. Half day.
3. Restaurant/Bistro for 2 hours or so.
4. Nursing Home visits only.

My lot is like a 3.5..
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Definitely not fair or appropriate to bring dad ANYWHERE. Have they tried to see if he has any triggers for these huge accidents? It's realllly hard to figure out but could be so helpful. Sometimes, it's the meds they're on. I'd ask the doctor for any likely culprits.

Good luck.
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Enjoy your holidays and leave him in Assisted Living where he belongs.
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This is an issue we all struggled with. You want to include them but it gets to the point where the cost is too great. I stopped taking my father out because he would loudly talk about his bowel movements. Others should not be subjected to that. I should not be subjected to that.

Still had him over for the holidays but it became a major production getting him there. Not only did I host but I had to escort him to the bathroom. And always at the worst possible times. Then it became a two man job for the bathroom. The only time he seemed to enjoy himself was the trip from the car into my house when everyone was fussing over him trying to get him safely inside. After that he really didn't seem to care. The last Christmas we had I realized bringing him here was just too much on me. I missed out on so much because I had to keep an eye on him and when I required my son's help with him in the bathroom I was done. It is one thing to help him in there and an entire different game when you have to wipe.

Have a small celebration for him at the AL a day before or after. If he balks tell him taking him out is no longer an option with the issues he is having.
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GAinPA Nov 2022
Who gets to wipe moment is a game changer. For the few it’s a put a glove on and deal with it. For others, it’s a reality check and hasty retreat. I salute them both. Hoping those who choose to retreat find another way to offer support.
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As suggested, the staff may want to take note when Dad has his problem. My Mom, it was coffee and apple juice. I cut both of them out. I also told the AL no coffee and found a new aide asking if Mom wanted some. I told her she was to have any and got a look. I then told her if Mom has coffee, you will be dealing with it. She was not suppose to have it anyway because of her Gerd.
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if you are concerned that this could happen, I wouldn’t bring him. Have some consideration for others at the restaurant who would not want to witness this situation. Stop by to spend time with your dad before you have your low key family dinner.
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Visit him the day before. Enjoy a calm Thanksgiving meal out with your husband and daughter. The issue is definitely a bio hazard to clean up…. More than a baby’s diaper change. Think about the restaurant staff and other patrons. I had to make “safety” based decisions regarding my dad, his neighbors, etc… I hope this helps. I understand the false guilt and emotions that hang overhead with aging parents. My own parents never experienced these situations and enjoyed their lives.
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Go out and enjoy your holiday meal(s) with your husband and daughter! Please do what is best for the three of you and any others who may be in a public restaurant so a can have a lovely holiday meal. IMHO trying to take dad out to a restaurant -- given his issues -- is not fair to you, him or other patrons.

Holidays can be so hard. Hard to let go of the "need to make it the same/similar to what was done previously," or the "family tradition." It can become an annual performance of trying to meet expectations and to fulfill the dream of the prefect Thanksgiving or Christmas meal. It pulls on our heart strings, like a Hallmark movie. But life's curveballs mean we cannot do what we have always done or want to do and that includes the "big family" holiday gatherings and meals at home or elsewhere. We have to adjust to what is realistic and still have a good time enjoying the holidays rather than lamenting that "it is not the same as it was."

Perhaps order dessert to go and, then, have dessert with your father at the AL later/after the meal. OR instead, have a holiday "brunch" mid morning day of with him at the AL (something easy: scones and coffee, bagels and lox, breakfast quiche) -- you get the idea...
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Notthshore adult incontinence products .. there r incontinence representative u can chat with they will be able to advise best product for ur situation..
'northshorecare.com
My first thought the is the waterproof be covers... Looking at site now they do r best sellers.
Trifecta waterproof covers.. protect against leaks odors and sagging designed to be worn over other disposable products....

For extra odor control get a spray underarm deodorant/anti persiprant to spray on diaper and. Genital area of body.
North shore has odor control product too and
adult wipes for easier clean up.
There is a tips and resource section on website be sure to check out.. video library caregiving section... Incontinence basics. free product samples
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Take care of yourself and your immediate family first - have a nice break for yourselves and go visit Dad later where he lives with his favorite dessert to go with his meal. I know that really strong desire to make things special like they used to be, but the one thing I kept telling myself when I was dealing with Dad also being 'pleasantly confused' (great way of putting it) and incontinent, was how horrified he would be at all of that if he was in his right mind.
Have a good holiday for yourselves, and maybe talk about some of those great memories from past celebrations.
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Kittykatt,
I think that you realize for a gazillion reasons, it’s not a good idea to take Dad out to eat. He has arrived at the point in life that things are much different due to his declining mental capacity, so much so that he can no longer participate in things as he once did. For those of us who have had close relationships with our parents, this is so so hard and so so sad. But as they say, it is what it is. Time now, to figure out how to celebrate with him in alternative ways. It is really ok to do this.

My dad had urinary incontinence, and he loved to go out to eat. I only took him places that had a bathroom that I could go in to help him. Most restaurants didn’t have them but a few did. But urinary incontinence is much different than fecal incontinence!

As others have suggested, find out if something else is going on physically for him. It sounds like he is doing an awful lot of poops. Maybe have a chat with his PCP, as well as the facility RN, who may have some advice.

best wishes
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I certainly wouldn't consider taking him out. It is sad, but that is where his physical and cognitive condition have ended. I would arrange extra special visiting during the day. Is it possible for people to stop by individually with a small present or treat, and a not too long a visit? He will want to be remembered, but will probably tire quickly.
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It doesn't sound like traveling with dad is an option. I wouldn't do it. You could get a nice holiday meal (take out) from a restaurant and have a holiday dinner with him at his assisted living facility.

Most AL's have a doctor that can see patients in their AL apartment. They draw labs, they have portable xray machines, etc. I would check into that so that you don't have to take him out for routine visits. If he has some unusual procedure and has to go out of the facility to have it done, then you can deal with that as needed.
Also, let the doctor know about these bathroom incidents.
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He stays at the assisted living facility while you enjoy the holiday with your family. I believe he would bless that if he was his old self. You then have a wonderful celebration with him at the AL making him feel very loved, remembering special moments growing up, lots of laughter and hugs.
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My mother and I went to a restaurant yesterday and something similar happened, but not as bad. She realized what was happening and went out to the car. Standing up made it worse for her but it stayed in her pants. I stayed to pay and when she passed me the smell was obvious.
she is fully aware and was beyond embarrassed by the whole ordeal. I am taking to to a previously scheduled drs appointment today and some of the posts here have given me an idea of what questions to bring up (meds, foods) for which I am grateful.
it sounds like your father is at a point where, as many have suggested, having a separate celebration with him at the facility, either private or one put on at the facility, would be your best bet.
I wish I could offer some advise but I can only offer my support and thank you for asking the question.
I hope you have a great holiday season and get to celebrate twice for each!
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