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I’m her POA and feel she doesn’t need that much money since she doesn’t go anywhere. I think she is giving it to my bum of a brother who hasn’t worked in over 10 years that lives with her. Any advice?
Imho, this may be Depression era mentality and yes, I see that she is an Alzheimer's patient. Oftentimes the elder will want the money with them for fear of not ever getting it back. However, most financial institutions have a daily limit on the amount of monies withdrawn. Make sure that this is set up. If she isn't going anywhere, she no doubt doesn't need that much cash on hand, lest the "bum of a brother" gets his hands on it.
My In-Laws had similar issues with Dad giving $ and buying cars for eldest daughter. Dad lived at home on the family farm with his two youngest daughters and they ran the farm with one brother. They ended up creating an LLC and then set it up so the bank required 2 signatures for any transactions. Dad was given a weekly “salary” and he could do with what he wanted. If you are taking care of all Mom’s finances & shopping she shouldn’t be needing much. Give her an envelope each week with what you & she decide she needs (I’d keep it under $100.00). Let her know when it is gone there will be no more until the next “payday”.
As my 88 year old Mom began declining cognitively, she became fixated on sending $300/month to my bum brother. As her PoA, but reluctant to have her declared unfit, I consulted an Elder Care Specialist attorney. If there is any chance that her funds will run out, Medicaid does a 5-year "look back" at money that has been "gifted" and will delay granting benefits in some cases. That will certainly put both of you in a bad position. It may not help, but it's a very real possibility if she outlives her savings.
Small regular withdrawals like that ($300) are normal and won’t catch the eye of Medicaid & impact eligibility. It’s large withdrawals and transfers of assets that Medicaid is concerned about.
My Grandfather use to do this. He suffers from Alzheimer's. I had to become Power of Attorney over his finances to keep him from losing his rent, groceries and bill money. He didn't like me having access to his money and account but I had to do what was best for him. He use to say, "you treat me like a child" but I had to realize he would eventually get over it. I just give him a small amount(which he still ends up losing) but with that he still feels a sense of independence.
Please try to ignore people who assume - we know what that leads to! Skimming through the responses, it is clear that these few people are reading more into this situation than they should, aka, assuming. If in doubt, they should either ask or not bother posting. Exceeding characters for my post, so this is being posted separately.
(these are the least offensive really - there are some doozies who post here. You just need to ignore those.)
You stated: "She is mentally incompetent and that is why I handle all financial and medical issues. I’m on this site looking for advice and support, not ridicule."
I would recommend seeking legal assistance for how to protect her assets, but the plan should be to set up a trust for any assets above and beyond normal expenses needed, and a way to protect her home from anyone, including your brother. Any regular income should be set up in such a way that she can only access a minimal amount. You should be able to get a free initial consult, but if you already have access to the atty who set up the POA, I would suggest starting there.
Given her age, one source of income is SS. THAT can be handled easily (may take a little effort with the virus situation) by signing up as rep payee. It requires a special account set up that only YOU can access - no one, including your mother, can access the funds there. Call the local SS office, not the main 800 number, unless you like waiting on hold. I was able to switch where her deposits went without doing this, but was NOT able to change her address for her once we moved her to MC, so at that point I had to sign up. Technically (others will dispute, but the paperwork is CLEAR) handling ANYONE ELSE'S SS is NOT legal unless you become rep payee. POA has NO bearing for anything federal. Been there/done that. It's the safest way to protect that income from the person and from anyone else. Keep good records for what is spent and saved from those funds, as they require a yearly report (the report isn't that bad, so long as you can reconcile the funds and can be done online.)
If she has other sources of income, such as a pension, determine how much would be needed for regular expenses and move the rest into the trust asap after it comes in. Leave only the amount you think she might "need". Our mother has a federal pension, and though they could have required a special account, like SS, they didn't and so far have not asked for reports, although they can. In mom's case, I was able to continue using her regular account for these funds/payments, and thankfully there was no evil person to worry about, plus she not only couldn't drive anymore, she wouldn't be able to direct anyone to the place! I did have to "sweep" her place for all paperwork after taking over.
For the credit card - this was one area I had some difficulty. They would only allow me phone access, no online account and wouldn't even set up alerts, to make it easier to monitor usage. The one thing they did do, when I asked, was reduce her limit to a reasonable amount (hers was WAY too high and ripe for abuse if compromised!) Although it isn't recommended, I would probably set up an online account BEFORE contacting them to make any changes (you'll have to provide a copy of the POA.) FWIW we NEVER had mom "declared" incompetent and NO ONE ever questioned the changes I made.
You also said: "Mom doesn’t drive anymore. My brother brought her to bank."
This is why some other arrangements need to be made for her. Keeping a small savings account, preferably with NO overdraft protection, for her use is about it. Limit how much goes in and that's it! If the bank will allow you to set up a separate checking account, in your name and hers, do that. It will require mom's signature, probably in person, so one of the times you take her out for whatever, get that done. Otherwise, seek legal advice for how you can set it all up such that she can't touch anything but the small allowance. Mention the probably elder abuse.
Other issues:
I would be concerned about her welfare, esp if you succeed in harnessing her funds, cutting your brother off. I would discuss this with the atty as well.
The financial drain will need to stop, in the event that she ever needs Medicaid. If no one can produce documentation as to where those funds went, they will penalize her (requires self-payment until the total "missing" over the previous 5 years are spent.)
Some, including an EC atty, might suggest guardianship. Try to avoid that, if possible. It is expensive and time-consuming. There should be ways to protect someone's assets using POA without going this route. I have been managing with only that - the only difference is there is no dead-beat relative siphoning off any money. If there was, I am sure I could have redirected her pension into the trust and paid everything from there (I did open a checking account with them, to access the funds as needed for repairs and the cost of MC/supplies over and above her pension and SS income.)
When we needed to move mom to MC, but she refused to consider moving ANYWHERE, esp not any kind of AL, the atty suggested guardianship (actually told me we were not allowed to "drag her out of the house"! Like we would have...) Not only does that take time and money, but it was also a block to the place we chose for her - they would not accept committals. In the end it took some sleight of hand/fibbing to facilitate the move, but I am VERY glad we didn't have to go the guardianship route. People might say the SS report is difficult (it REALLY isn't, just a one page paper, 1/4-1/2 of which is confirming YOU and your status, and the financial reporting is lumping housing/food expenses, other expenses, how much, if any, saved), but having to report to the courts, probably every nickel and dime spent, and asking permission to do what needed to be done (we had a lot of repairs to do on her condo to sell it, then would probably need court approval to sell. No thanks!)
So far, other than the SS yearly report, and having the taxes done by an Enrolled Agent (20 pages of trust paperwork blinded me - no way!), I don't get asked or report anything else. Although two of us are POA, I am the only one managing everything. I initially tried including both in big decisions, but they are such jerks and often don't even respond, so I don't bother anymore. My two brothers NEVER ask what is being spent or why. They have questions, they should be asking them NOW. She's into year 4 at MC, so field questions already! If they wait until she's passed on, too bad, so sad, after all final expenses and taxes, here's your share, if there's any left. Don't like it, TFB!
As noted in the post above, I would address concerns about this brother. If my OB was living here with her (he isn't local) and was possibly taking her money, I would find a way to get him out. He was abusive to me as a kid, and repeated that 2 years ago (I refuse to allow him near me now). I believe this is who he is and if he were living with mom, she'd be in big trouble! He has NO patience and the simplest things can trigger his anger! Thankfully he never followed through on his offer to take her in (both brothers experienced sticker shock when they found out how much MC cost! both also said "for that kind of money, I'll take her in!" sure they will... )
If he's cut off from his sugar-momma's funding, she may be the one who "pays." Although he will likely direct a lot of anger at you, she could be in immediate danger of his anger. This is where the legal advice would be well worth what you might have to spend.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
He use to say, "you treat me like a child" but I had to realize he would eventually get over it.
I just give him a small amount(which he still ends up losing) but with that he still feels a sense of independence.
(these are the least offensive really - there are some doozies who post here. You just need to ignore those.)
"She is mentally incompetent and that is why I handle all financial and medical issues. I’m on this site looking for advice and support, not ridicule."
I would recommend seeking legal assistance for how to protect her assets, but the plan should be to set up a trust for any assets above and beyond normal expenses needed, and a way to protect her home from anyone, including your brother. Any regular income should be set up in such a way that she can only access a minimal amount. You should be able to get a free initial consult, but if you already have access to the atty who set up the POA, I would suggest starting there.
Given her age, one source of income is SS. THAT can be handled easily (may take a little effort with the virus situation) by signing up as rep payee. It requires a special account set up that only YOU can access - no one, including your mother, can access the funds there. Call the local SS office, not the main 800 number, unless you like waiting on hold. I was able to switch where her deposits went without doing this, but was NOT able to change her address for her once we moved her to MC, so at that point I had to sign up. Technically (others will dispute, but the paperwork is CLEAR) handling ANYONE ELSE'S SS is NOT legal unless you become rep payee. POA has NO bearing for anything federal. Been there/done that. It's the safest way to protect that income from the person and from anyone else. Keep good records for what is spent and saved from those funds, as they require a yearly report (the report isn't that bad, so long as you can reconcile the funds and can be done online.)
If she has other sources of income, such as a pension, determine how much would be needed for regular expenses and move the rest into the trust asap after it comes in. Leave only the amount you think she might "need". Our mother has a federal pension, and though they could have required a special account, like SS, they didn't and so far have not asked for reports, although they can. In mom's case, I was able to continue using her regular account for these funds/payments, and thankfully there was no evil person to worry about, plus she not only couldn't drive anymore, she wouldn't be able to direct anyone to the place! I did have to "sweep" her place for all paperwork after taking over.
For the credit card - this was one area I had some difficulty. They would only allow me phone access, no online account and wouldn't even set up alerts, to make it easier to monitor usage. The one thing they did do, when I asked, was reduce her limit to a reasonable amount (hers was WAY too high and ripe for abuse if compromised!) Although it isn't recommended, I would probably set up an online account BEFORE contacting them to make any changes (you'll have to provide a copy of the POA.) FWIW we NEVER had mom "declared" incompetent and NO ONE ever questioned the changes I made.
You also said:
"Mom doesn’t drive anymore. My brother brought her to bank."
This is why some other arrangements need to be made for her. Keeping a small savings account, preferably with NO overdraft protection, for her use is about it. Limit how much goes in and that's it! If the bank will allow you to set up a separate checking account, in your name and hers, do that. It will require mom's signature, probably in person, so one of the times you take her out for whatever, get that done. Otherwise, seek legal advice for how you can set it all up such that she can't touch anything but the small allowance. Mention the probably elder abuse.
Other issues:
I would be concerned about her welfare, esp if you succeed in harnessing her funds, cutting your brother off. I would discuss this with the atty as well.
The financial drain will need to stop, in the event that she ever needs Medicaid. If no one can produce documentation as to where those funds went, they will penalize her (requires self-payment until the total "missing" over the previous 5 years are spent.)
When we needed to move mom to MC, but she refused to consider moving ANYWHERE, esp not any kind of AL, the atty suggested guardianship (actually told me we were not allowed to "drag her out of the house"! Like we would have...) Not only does that take time and money, but it was also a block to the place we chose for her - they would not accept committals. In the end it took some sleight of hand/fibbing to facilitate the move, but I am VERY glad we didn't have to go the guardianship route. People might say the SS report is difficult (it REALLY isn't, just a one page paper, 1/4-1/2 of which is confirming YOU and your status, and the financial reporting is lumping housing/food expenses, other expenses, how much, if any, saved), but having to report to the courts, probably every nickel and dime spent, and asking permission to do what needed to be done (we had a lot of repairs to do on her condo to sell it, then would probably need court approval to sell. No thanks!)
So far, other than the SS yearly report, and having the taxes done by an Enrolled Agent (20 pages of trust paperwork blinded me - no way!), I don't get asked or report anything else. Although two of us are POA, I am the only one managing everything. I initially tried including both in big decisions, but they are such jerks and often don't even respond, so I don't bother anymore. My two brothers NEVER ask what is being spent or why. They have questions, they should be asking them NOW. She's into year 4 at MC, so field questions already! If they wait until she's passed on, too bad, so sad, after all final expenses and taxes, here's your share, if there's any left. Don't like it, TFB!
As noted in the post above, I would address concerns about this brother. If my OB was living here with her (he isn't local) and was possibly taking her money, I would find a way to get him out. He was abusive to me as a kid, and repeated that 2 years ago (I refuse to allow him near me now). I believe this is who he is and if he were living with mom, she'd be in big trouble! He has NO patience and the simplest things can trigger his anger! Thankfully he never followed through on his offer to take her in (both brothers experienced sticker shock when they found out how much MC cost! both also said "for that kind of money, I'll take her in!" sure they will... )
If he's cut off from his sugar-momma's funding, she may be the one who "pays." Although he will likely direct a lot of anger at you, she could be in immediate danger of his anger. This is where the legal advice would be well worth what you might have to spend.