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Hi all,


Dealing with my fiances mother who about 10+ years ago had a bad hip surgery that gave her a stroke and put her in a coma. Ever since then she has been on the decline, she is 70 years old now. Her and her husband have moved 3 miles away from us recently. Her husband has been primary caregiver however is suffering from depression and generally hates her at this point and they probably shouldn't live together, it can be quite toxic at times. However, there aren't any other options at this point. She can't walk well and insists on being pushed in her wheelchair even though her doctor insists she can/should walk as much as she can. She complains non-stop about how bad she has it, how much pain she is in, how mean her husband is to her (even though he does everything for her) Her doctor tells her no more sleeping pills and she insists I take her to walgreens so she can get benadryl. Not allowed to have sugar and insists on getting ice-cream... etc... she just generally doesn't care nor try to improve her conditions nor her attitude. She seems to want to live a miserable life. She doesn't have great impulse control so if she wants something she'll call over and over all day. She obsesses over getting her hair and nails done and new clothes rather than strengthening herself and becoming more independent. She'll try to get you to do everything for her and has no boundaries. I hate to make her sound like some monster, she has good qualities and is a good person and can be silly and sweet, but DEFINITELY has some toxic habits that are creating a pretty miserable family situation for the rest of us. What do you do with someone who doesn't try at all and would rather feel sorry for themselves and have everyone else do everything for them? How much agency does she really have? She's had some brain damage from the coma but def is functional and can do WAY more than she does. If someone isn't willing to put the work in how should the rest of the family proceed? A facility is not an option (financially) and she is too snobby to be social with other people in her dealing with similar circumstances .

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You can lead a horse to water...

"What do you do with someone who doesn't try at all and would rather feel sorry for themselves and have everyone else do everything for them?"

I'd decline any ongoing invites to pity parties.

I'd suggest professional assistance; Thearapist for marriage/life counselling & a Geriatrician for medical issues. Let this couple get advice & decide their own path. (May be time for AL for MIL.. if they think best).

I'd be a DIL who visits now & then. Bring afternoon tea, have a friendly chat. That would be MY boundary right there. The rest falls into their life & therefore is up to them.

I would not step a foot onto that slippery slope towards being at beck & call 24/7.
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Lovetoread Apr 2021
Thank you for that response and also validating some thoughts I have been feeling guilty about. They are going to many different doctor appointments and therapy sessions including Al-anon and other zoom meetings, but once those are over she doesn't do anything on her own that she's supposed to do outside of these meetings/appointments. It's like she's going to them just to say "look, see, I'm trying." FIL was going to have a breakdown without some help from the two sons (one being my fiance) which is why they moved closer to us. (FIL is her full-time caregiver + worked full time as a graphic designer he's 70 as well) Another weird layer to this is that he recently had an affair, needing a romantic relationship with a woman (which is long gone from the marriage) and we don't exactly know how to feel about that. He's not currently pursuing that other relationship anymore. We have a lot of sympathy for him, but also are just weirded out by the whole thing as they still live together and MIL knows about it. Ugggghh wish there were more affordable options for assisted living! I wish we could spark motivation and hope and positivity, but she really seems doomed to be unhappy and needy. (Hope that doesn't sound too insensitive)
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If someone continues to do for her, than she will have no reason to try and do for herself. It's called enabling. Time for the family to step back, and let her do for herself. If you don't now, it will only continue to get worse. And please don't take her to get Benadryl, as that has been proven to make people over 60 with mental decline worse, and can even cause cognitive decline. So by you taking her to get that, you are in fact making her worse.
And like Beatty said, next time she invites you to her pity party, just decline to go. Best wishes.
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Lovetoread Apr 2021
Thank you for your response! And wow I didn't know that about the benadryl, I was very stern with her and refused to get it for her and am now especially glad about that!
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As long as she is of sound mind, not much you can do legally. 

But! You can tell her NO. Some examples:

"No MIL, I can't get you benadryl (or ice cream or whatever destructive thing she wants). I don't feel right about that given your medical problems." (This may get her to consider to stop acting so helpless? Maybe not!).

MIL complaining? "I'm sorry you're having such a hard time. I'll call/see you when you're feeling a little better." 

MIL wants you to come over and do whatever for her? "I can't. I've got [work, school, anything] and I can't miss that or put it aside." 

Once you and fiance stop coming around so much and don't immediately get her what she wants, she may realize her antics don't work. You say she is a good person, and I'm sure she has good aspects... but really, a good person would take responsibility and not want to burden others. Nor would a good person be snobby. It’s not your fault she doesn’t want to be around people, and no need for you and fiancé to be her social group.
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Lovetoread Apr 2021
Absolutely! I have always had a hard time with saying no and being assertive especially when there are mixed emotions (guilt, empathy etc...) tied in as well, so I've experienced a lot of growth having to set boundaries and become more assertive, thanks for your motivation!
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I understand that FIL is overwhelmed but she is his responsibility. He needs to set boundries. He needs to find ways to get away by hiring someone. You can help but I would not get involved in her care. I am not beyond a little threat. Dad needs to tell her if she won't do for herself, then he may need to put her in a LTC facility because caring for her is stressing him out. Medicaid may pay for her care. FIL being the Community Spouse. Assets get split with her portion being spent down then applying for Medicaid. FIL can remain in the home and have a car and enough from their monthly income (SS and pension) to live on. Check your State to see if Medicaid pays for AL.

If there was brain damage that could cause a lot of problems. Its been 10 yrs and she should be evaluated again by a neurologist.

When a poster used the word enabling a member said that its not always enabling, its disabling. Enabling is getting her the Benadryl and icecream she is not suppose to have. Disabling is doing things for her she can do for herself.

I would not marry into this family unless you are sure you will come first.
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Lovetoread Apr 2021
Yeah she's been to a thousand doctors that can't seem to help with her migraines and back pains and hip pains etc dry eyes and dry throat...I could go on and on with all her issues, it's really sad and frustrating. The Medicaid info is really informative thank you for that I will def look more into it!
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OK--your mom sounds just like mine. She can be funny and enjoyable to be with, but not much anymore. She's always got some new horrible ache or pain and has had multiple serious sugeries. The ONLY one she truly needed was a hip replacement at age 86. She's 91 and scouting out new drs who will do either the other hip (being proactive, you know) or work on her shoulder. No drs will touch a 91 yo woman in terrible health who will not do PT afterwards and who won't follow the rules.

She hurt her left shoulder and when you visit she sits and groans and rubs her shoulder non-stop. Complains that she can't get a dr who will help her. At first I was all about helping her find range of motion exercises, cortisone shots, massage, and she'd throw it back at me.

Last week I was there for a minute and she was rubbing her RIGHT shoulder and moaning and saying how much WORSE her shoulder was getting---finally I said "Mother, it's your OTHER shoulder that hurts. Your right one is fine". That didn't fly and I got bounced out of there pretty fast.

People like this have lived inside their own brains for so long, that they really can't see how off putting their behavior is. Mom is perpetually dissapointed in all of us, and lets us know it. And you know what?

There is not one thing I can do for her. She WANTS to be miserable.

70 is VERY young. She could easily live 25 more years. Just saying. And I doubt she will get 'better'.

Mom is 91 and has lived with YB in his home for 26 years. He regrets this decision every day of his life.
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Lovetoread Apr 2021
Yes spending time with her can be unpleasant when she complains so much and constantly tries to poison me with sh*t-talking about her husband, how mean and miserable he is and all the mean things he says, how he does this and that etc... its exhausting and frankly just plain awkward because they aren't even MY parents they're my inlaws. My fiance has given up and come to terms with her probably dying a miserable person because he's been dealing with it much longer than me (we've been together 5 years, but she's been like this 15 years) it's just so frustrating because she IS ONLY 70! She could be living so much better but just gets in her own way and only wants to book doctor appt after doctor appt for shots and new treatments and surgeries that never help, instead of just putting in the freaking work herself!! (physical therapy, exercise, eating right) uggggghhhh. I'm sorry to hear about your mom btw... this platform is such a great way to commiserate with others and get support/ advice from wonderful people such as yourself. Thanks for the response!
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Sounds very much like my mother. She's older but has been actively dying for the last 40 years or so.
Tough love is what your fiance's mother needs, and from everyone. That means you, her kids, and her husband. All of you must stop being at her beck and call and catering to her every whim.
JoAnn29 in the comments here is absolutely right when she says that 'enabling is disabling'. If she can do for herself, she must do for herself. It's for her own good.
If your future MIL wants to act like a spoiled brat child then treat her like one. When the complaining and demands start everyone needs to completely ignore her. Don't accept any more invitations to her pity parties either because that's how she gets all of you to jump through hoops.
Next time she wants to go shopping, or get her hair and nails done tell her no because you (and everyone else) refuses to push her in a wheelchair that she doesn't need. If she wants you to go buy Benadryl or ice cream tell her the truth. That she isn't supposed to be having these things and that you will not help her get them.
You, her husband, and her kids need to change the family dynamic. Right now your future MIL controls the situation and is in charge. No more of that. All of you need to stop and be united together in the decision. Your future MIL will catch on when she gets lonely because everyone is blowing her off. She'll adjust her behavior and start doing for herself when everyone stops humoring her.
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Lovetoread Apr 2021
"All of you need to stop and be united together in the decision." That really makes me realize we haven't actually gotten together without her to be able to discuss anything now that she is living closer, we all kind of avoid really dealing with it as a team. I will def be mentioning that we should have a little meetup to vent/discuss!
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Just because she has no boundaries doesn't mean you shouldn't.
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Lovetoread Apr 2021
So true! I am working on being more assertive, thanks for the feedback
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One person’s refusal to change or help themselves doesn’t mean others must jump to their demands. It’s not on the family to endlessly try to fix what refuses to get better. Be around for the times she’s reasonable and provide truly needed help. Anytime it turns toxic, leave immediately
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Lovetoread Apr 2021
Thank you! "be around for the times she's reasonable" indeed sounds like a reasonable thing to do hahah... I'm def practicing that! I don't want to totally dismiss her because she's not some horrible person
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I was just re-reading here & wondering... about people with some dependant personality traits (not dependant on substances - but maybe a little underconfident in life skills/decision making). Whether as these people aged, got ill etc if they increased this *learned helplessness* as a survival mode. To become more & more needy to ensure their main carergiver didn't abandon them?

From stroke org website:
The impact of stroke on the brain can also cause personality, mood and emotional changes. All this means there is a strong link between stroke, depression and anxiety.

Add a stroke to that personality & I would image you get a very anxious needy person!

Even with stronger boundaries to say no to MIL, I'm thinking the stress is just going to keep at you all - as her needs will still be unmet (unless constant attention is given). Makes me think 'What cannot be cured must be endured'... Not by FIL & family - but by MIL herself. If she is not independent, to accept that & plan how she will live. Having relatives that don't live with her at beck & call or wearing out her spouse is not reasonable - time for something different (AL comes to mind).

So it may well be time for a family meeting & discuss a different path.
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Stop doing anything for her.

Stop driving her around.

Either she does it herself, or it doesn't get done. If someone waits on you hand and foot, what motive is there to improve? Let her sink or swim.

Whatever you do, don't EVER consider moving her into your home, or you moving in with her. This sounds like stage 1 of a multi-stage process that ends with the two of you living together. That would be a disaster.
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Lovetoread Apr 2021
Good Lord nooo way, we considered living with them for a MILLISECOND and realized what a bad idea that is
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Two things:

Get her to a geriatric psychiatriat for evaluation and treatment of her mental health issues.

Learn to say "I can't possibly do that".
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Lovetoread Apr 2021
thank you, yes I've been practicing more assertiveness through this!
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I can remember lots and lots of ‘pity party’ comments on this site, but not one about the expression being used to the party thrower, how they reacted, or what happened then.

I’d be interested in any comments!
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tryingmybest8 Apr 2021
My sister and I visit Mom every day taking turns with whatever she needs at the moment. Mom has a very different relationship with my sister then me. My sister simply won’t listen to Mom’s pity party. If it starts up she simply leaves. I on the other hand listen and try to fix things. It’s my nature to try to make it better which just prolongs the PP. Lately Mom has fixated on several impossible dreams that she expects I will accomplish. I asked her yesterday, “what does —— have to say about it?” Mom said, “well, I don’t talk to her about such things. She just leaves.” Aha! Clearly I’m creating my own problem.
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I’m surprised no one has mentioned the word “dementia “. My mother talks the same narrative. Everything revolves around her. She clearly doesn’t understand why I don’t think the way she thinks. There is no reasoning with her. She is very capable yet manipulative and controlling. Says she could only have days to live yet nothing is wrong with her. Doctors keep telling me it’s her dementia. Oh, and she lives alone in a senior apartment and she’ll be 98 in July. I’m sorry you’ve been thrust into the mix. If you don’t let your future in-laws figure it out themselves, this will become your life. They are preying on your good nature. Sending hugs to you and all involved.
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Lovetoread Apr 2021
Hmmm that is interesting, I will mention this to the family!
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You have gotten a lot of good advice here. The main point here is to "stop attending the pity parties".

I used to say about my father...the more you help him, the more helpless he acts. I had no issue with helping my father with things he couldn't do, but I took great offense at being expected to jump and do things he didn't FEEL like doing.

You have an added issue I do not....you have a group of people you need to get on board with not enabling her, I was on my own.

70 is not old (I am 54 and husband is 72, while I see age related issues he is not old). Do you want another 20-25 years of doing this? And what happens when FIL is not longer around and a buffer to all of this?
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Lovetoread Apr 2021
Yes the requests absolutely escalate ! First she calls 3 times and it's "ohh I don't know my ipad is being strange I can't find a salon around here can you find one for me?" I find one... "ohhh how does it look? maybe you can drive by and check." No I'm not driving by, the photos of it look great, it's a good place. "How about tomorrow when you take me to get my nails done?" Okay, sure. Tomorrow comes, we walk by (doors are locked because it's appointment only for covid) "It looks okay, I need their phone number to make an appointment." Okay I'll text you their website. Next day I get 2 phone calls and 2 voicemails "I can't read their phone number, my phone is being strange, its hard to see I don't know what's going on can you help me, call me back, I get a weird thing when I call them" At this point I know she's going to try to get me to make the appointment for her WHICH SHE IS FULLY CAPABLE OF DOING so I haven't picked up her calls anymore because she'll just keep trying to get me to do everything every step of the way. uggh I feel guilty I know things can be tough for her but also she will just continue to decline if she doesn't TRY!!!
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Definitely everyone involved (except her) needs to get together and discuss - make it clear that everyone should push back on her demands. Whatever she is truly capable of doing, don't do it for her. She most certainly can make her own appointments. Complaints? Pity party? Tune it out. Change the subject like you never heard what she said when she tries this. If it continues, make excuse to leave and go.

For FIL and his needs - he does need to have some "me" time. If she is constantly berating him and complaining, he NEEDS to get out! While facility care might not be affordable, can he get out and leave her alone or does she need someone there? A few hours several days/week might help, if she needs supervision (but the aides should be warned to encourage her doing for herself too!) Depending on income, Medicaid might be able to help - many states do have in-home care programs. It isn't full time, but any help is good!

So, you are learning and taking pointers here. Get the others together for a pow-wow and share the information. Present a united front with her and refuse to coddle her. If she'd be willing to work with OT/PT, perhaps she can get this provided in home? If she isn't willing to work with them and do the exercises between visits, that might be a waste. My mother had dementia, but had a stroke around Labor Day. It impacted her dominant side and swallowing, but she still tried to feed herself! They did bring in PT to work with her, to try to strengthen that side so she could eat and help with pivoting when staff had to move her. Some people are much more independent and will try, even if it's a struggle. Others like the mollycoddling and attention it gets them. Perhaps instead of indulging on her "helplessness", give her more attention when she actually DOES try to do something. The attention may work as a reward...
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Lovetoread Apr 2021
We will certainly be getting together to discuss now that we are all living in the same county, it's been about 2 months since they've moved here and it's time we had a big talk! She can be alone, but I will be looking into those in-home care programs so that FIL doesn't have to do quite as much, because he hit his limit a long time ago... thanks for the advice!
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If she has no assets, a facility is an option financially, for her. She applies for a Medicaid bed in NH and they total up her income to determine how much they pay after she pays. Or the state Medicaid program pays it all if she has no income. Money is considered for the stay at home spouse so he is not made destitute by removing her income from the house.

Talk frankly with her. People who want to stay in their home have work to do to stay there. They follow the health recommendations regarding her sugar levels. They TRY to do the physical and occupational therapies to get stronger so that another person is not having to do all the lifting and pushing to move a body around. It is obvious she can do more than she does when only family in the home. If she wants to stay in bed or in a wheelchair all day, there are facilities for that kind of care and she will need to go there. All of you plan to talk to dr to get therapy done in the home and her willingness to participate will determine where she can live. Hubby is going to hurt himself or wear himself out trying to manage all of her needs as well as his own.

She has a choice to make. As my grandmother used to say - do you want to wear out from trying to help yourself or rust out by just sitting until you can no longer move.
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Lovetoread Apr 2021
Wow, love that wisdom your grandmother shared! Will be looking into the medicaid stuff as well, thanks for your advice!
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Hello,
I agree with the posters who are recommending a geripsych assessment and to consider that she may have dementia, especially given her history.
Pinning down the root cause of her behaviors, whether physical or mental, will help your family make decisions about next steps.
Offhand it sounds like she can't set up appointments anymore-either can't manage the steps or the technology. Obsessiveness, apathy, inability to initiate actions, and lack of intuition and judgement can be seen in dementia.
Definitely, If she can ambulate she needs to be up and moving, even if she needs a walker. And your working on setting limitations is a great step. Good luck!
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Beatty Apr 2021
Great reply.

My relative will not do for herself if others within sight/phone call. Cannot understand how unreasonable it was on family - just knows 'she wants stuff done'. Just how her brain works now. Doctor said *anosognosia* and noted file *lack of insight*.

Said anosognosia common after stroke, also vascular dementia. No point trying to reason (won't work) just to set reasonable boundaries for yourself.

So home aides employed to meet needs instead (until that no longer works). Then will be into care.
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I think we would make a fortune arranging pity parties my mum is the same I have found that for my sanity I have stopped going round to my mums as often as I did and feel better for it they will end up making you ill if you don’t take a step back and I feel my mum is not just as bad as she was .... good luck
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Book her into respite care for three weeks and the rest of you have a holiday and some quality time. It will enable the staff to assess for any possible dementia, but it will also give her husband a break and if she hates it perhaps she will be a little more grateful for what she has at home. Of course she might love it in which case maybe that is your solution. You say a facility is not a financial option - it is always an option if someone is destitute the state simply has to take over, it just depends how far you are willing to go to put her out of your lives. If you are going to keep looking after her at home then assuming she is mentally with it, sit down and go through absolutely every service or assistance that could be offered and agree what you will do and what you won't, and if necessary have husband to stay with you for a few weeks so you can see what she can actually do. One thing about pain and her hip operation - if they put any pins in during the operation these pins can come out and it is exceptionally painful, unfortunately only an Xray can show this.
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Perhaps she’s more mentally deficient than you realize?
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The answer is simple...however the doing is difficult.
You stop driving her to the store to get her Benadryl.
You don't buy the ice cream and other things she wants but should not have.
If she wants the Benadryl, ice cream and other things she should not have she has to get them herself.
You stop pushing her in the wheelchair, she can push herself and she will soon find out that walking with a walker is easier than pushing herself.
Help her with the things she has difficulty doing and do for her the things she can not do. (after a bit of encouragement)
See...I told you it was easy, I'm sitting her in my living room having a hot cup of mocha...you and your family on the other hand are the ones that have to deal with the ramifications of saying no, we are not going to do that for you, you are capable of doing that yourself.
Respite for your FIL would be a great idea. Many Assisted Living or Rehab facilities will take someone for 1, 2 or more weeks for Respite. The idea there is they hope you like the community and would choose them when the time comes to make that choice. FIL would get a bit of a break, MIL would have to deal with things on her own for a while and become more independent. I would even book rehab time for her so she can become more confident in what she can do.
If the AL facility or Rehab is not a possibility if your local Senior Center is open they could both go there, FIL can engage with others and if MIL does not wish to (because she is "snobby") then that is on her, she can sit and read while FIL plays cards, reads the paper or has a conversation with someone. At least it would be a bit of a break for him. Or leave her at home and he can go and she will have to "survive" for a few hours without his help. (as long as she is safe to leave by herself for a few hours.)
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Set up boundaries and keep to them.

Don't do anything for her that she can do for herself or at least meet you half way to do.

The thing is, noone really knows how much pain she is in but her.
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My own mother is just the opposite of your MIL! My mother wouldn’t accept pity if it was her last day on earth. But this is a double-edged sword because she will never admit she has a problem and it’s up to the hospice nurses or me to figure it out. It’s difficult because she has several serious health problems going on and it’s like cognitive dissonance every day. You see the suffering because she’s in pain, but she’ll never tell you because it shows weakness. I never know if she needs help with something or if she can really do it herself without putting herself in a bad situation. It’s like living on the edge everyday. Not to be truthful ever is as bad as complaining about everything. Not sure I make much sense, but just when I start to have compassion for her, she shuts me down. It’s an odd place emotionally to be in day-in and day-out.

It’s an emotional roller-coaster no matter the experience we have as care-givers. We have to deal the best way we can and remember we have lives too and that the LO’s we care for should not take up so much space in our emotional well-being that we feel trapped. This site is so good at helping us understand we are never alone.
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Lovetoread Apr 2021
Yes this site is great for that! The way your mom lives sounds risky and I can see how you would be nervous everyday that she will take it past her limits and hurt herself, goodluck with everything and thank you for sharing
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I am in the same boat with my mom and feel the same as you. Just dont make the one mistake I did. My dad passed years ago and I moved my mom in with me. She has her own bedroom and living room built onto our house. she can do almost everything for herself but as soon as she moved in she went into a mode of this is her nursing home and I am at her call. She wont leave the recliner except to go to the bathroom. And turns me into the bad guy only behind my back if I don't do what she orders. My siblings come around once a year and do nothing to help except tell me its not my place to make her happy. They have never so much as taken her to a dr apt. I am trying not to let her negative attitude turn me into her but my anxity is so bad...its going to be a long road.
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Beatty Apr 2021
Or a short trip to the nearest NH... Is that recliner on wheels?

I have about 5 from my place I reckon within pushable distance 😉
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New eyes. My husband and I both worked in healthcare, and now are old enough to spend a lot of time as patients. When things are this bad, even when we were treating the patient, we would say it is time for "new eyes", a second opinion. This type of person elicits a great deal of irritation and frustration. That can blind you to real issues the patient may be having. I would get a completely second medical
opinion. She may be in pain that can be improved. The geropsychiatric opinion is also a good idea. Benedryl in older people can lead to confusion and memory problems. I'm not excusing her behavior; sounds like a real pain. But, perhaps, some of the problems can be improved, or the approach can be changed. These are questions really for professionals. You can't be expected to answer them objectively.

That being said. Even with a severely demented person, unlike your mother-in-law, it is reasonable to step away to calm down. If the situation is so dire you can't step out of the room, call 911. It is reasonable to change your behavior, to not reinforce their behavior. Waiting on them, blowing up at them, interacting angrily, all these things increase the behavior that is driving you crazy. Step away for a few minutes or hours, days, or longer. Explain that when she upsets you, you cannot be helpful. Give her husband permission to do the same. He feels trapped. In early psychology courses, you learn that one celled organisms can learn. (Change their direction for food or unpleasant things added to the water.) That means a human, even a demented one, can recognize what increases or decreases interactions. Stepping away is a good idea when she is impossible, or you are at the end of your rope. On the other hand, when she has her pleasant moments increase the interaction, don't use that time to rest from her care. I would contact the senior agencies in your area and ask for help or advice. Sometimes they can arrange visits, or even some care. Churches do this also. A person not caught up in this frustrating situation, can often provide a break for everyone.
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Lovetoread Apr 2021
"don't use that time to rest from her care" I definitely needed to hear that! It's easy to do and really great advice. Also "one celled organisms can learn. (Change their direction for food or unpleasant things added to the water.) That means a human, even a demented one, can recognize what increases or decreases interactions." what an interesting way to think about it, it makes so much sense! Thank you for that
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Something to consider.

Was she always manipulative or is this a new behavior after her stroke?

If she has always been manipulative, then a psychiatrist may be the better doctor to see. It might be wise for her husband to see one as well - separately and as a couple. If she refuses - and even if she decides to see one - I suggest that family and friends read any "boundary" book by Townsend and Cloud. She has problem behaviors that make relationships more difficult. In short, each person needs a plan of how to handle each problem behavior. I would start will not giving in to her whims that are detrimental to her health - just say "I know this isn't good for you, so I won't do this." If she calls over and over, put phone on silent and let it go to voicemail.

If this is new behavior after her stroke, it appears that the impulse control area of her brain is damaged. The only thing to do is manage her behavior problems. Again, I stress reading a "boundary" book by Townsend and Cloud. Each person will need a plan for dealing with each type of problem behavior - impulsivity, manipulation, phone calls... If her husband is finding it too hard to manage her behavior on his own, it may be time to consider other options: adult day care, having lots of family and friends sit with her throughout the week, or residential care.

In your case, do what is right for you, your relationships with this family, and what is healthy for this lady. Do not get manipulated into doing anything that is harmful for her.

Feel free to copy and print this out and let family members read this post.
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Lovetoread Apr 2021
Thank you for that idea, others have also posted about the behavior maybe existing before the stroke and I do remember my fiance mentioning she had some bad habits before everything happened, like complaining alot and always somehow having issues with other people she worked with, things like that. A psychiatrist may be more beneficial at this point, so even she remains being dependent at least she could become more pleasant
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You generally can't save people who don't want to be saved. She likes being miserable and.... the more you and the family respond to her, the happier she is going to be. I hope among her many doctor's appointments she has been seen by a psychiatrist for a full evaluation; was she this way prior to the sx and coma ten years ago?

As most other posters have said.... stop taking part in her pity party and enabling her. She is very young at 70 to have this attitude - she could easily live another 20 years and her attitude is not likely to improve: this is her personality and she has been performing this way for decades. The family could be looking at a very long road; be brutally honest with yourself and make sure you can handle it. This is a good time to take a look at the family and make sure there is someone there who can and will make hard decisions.

Not sure where you are located but in NJ it is the business decision of the
AL to accept Medicaid. Most do not or limit their acceptance to a very few beds because the rate of pay from Medicaid is so low that they lose money on that bed, so when you get out ALs find out not only if they accept Medicaid but how many beds in their facility are Medicaid beds. Also find out if they will convert a bed to a Medicaid bed if all Medicaid beds are currently occupied when and if MIL runs out of private funds ( trying to prevent you getting caught in the situation where the AL accepts Medicaid for 5 beds which are all occupied when your LO runs out of funds and so will have to leave and search for a new facility; those get ugly really quickly). Also check your state to see if there are any other Medicaid options available in addition to AL (adult group home, boarding care, home health care, etc. They may not fit your needs but it is interesting info to have).

Family should try to get past FIL's affair. The relationship between MIL and FIL is theirs - it might be strange or even weird to you but that's their business and family, I'm sure has lots to concern them on their own, so stay out of that arena.

In terms of FIL not much you can do there to help him. If he really needs to get away from his wife and she won't/can't move to an AL , perhaps he might consider taking short vacations of a few days at a time at a local extended stay hotels. It will give him a respite and remove an enabler from MIL's immediate circle for a few days.

I wish you and the rest of the family good luck in dealing with a difficult situation made worse by a difficult personality. Let us know how things progress.
Peace.
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Lovetoread Apr 2021
Thank you for your honest and realistic response !
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Her husband is tired of her to the point of having had an affair. Her son is tired of her to the point of becoming depressed and hating if not her, then certainly the drag she is. And you're following suit and trying to find ways to change her attitude, to make her less whiney and needy and more positive about improving her own situation.

But has anyone looked under the hood? It is unusual to need hip surgery at 55. It is unusual for it to go so badly that you stroke and wind up in a coma. At the root of how she is now is what went wrong before. Was she/is she very much overweight? Is there some underlying physical or mental health condition which she and her husband are so used to they never thought to mention it to their son or to you? You have to know exactly what she's battling with before you decide she should be trying harder.

Once you have your information, then you will understand better what is realistic. And then, for her to change her approach, it has to be made both possible and worth *her* while: she has to believe that she can succeed and that she will be glad she tried.

You, meanwhile, can decide your boundaries on a different basis - namely, the time and trouble you are prepared to give her. Take the hair salon rigmarole. Actually, it would have been a lot quicker to call the salon and make the appointment, wouldn't it? Rather than deciding "she can do this, I'm not going to cave in" - which took you hours and was tedious and frustrating - you could have thought "I'll give this 45 minutes" - including time to check the salon out (I don't really understand why the salon didn't put its telephone number on its hoarding, mind) and time to make 1 or max 2 phone calls.

Or, third option, you could have found the number, gone to her, put it into her phone, helped her make the call, then done a little cheerleader's dance once she'd made the appointment. She *could* do it, fact. She did it. She wins a hair appointment - and your approval.

And if she'd flunked it, or sabotaged it (both possible), then you intervene and don't comment.

But the key thing is: figure out in your own mind how much work you are happy, willing, content to give her and stand fast to that boundary.

Who else is working with her? Does she get any input from therapists of any kind?
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Lovetoread Apr 2021
Thank you for your feedback! Hip surgery was needed after she tripped over a cat and landed 'just so' to require the surgery which wasn't done quite right, something about the joint not fusing properly, so they did a second surgery to fix and the doctor hammered hard enough that bone marrow was released into her bloodstream which caused the stroke and coma... She has been to countless doctors and therapists over the years and tried probably hundreds of therapies/medications/shots/surgeries to fix her increasing ailments, crooked spine, chronic migraines, dry throat causing her to choke and cough her food up regularly, dry eyes, I could go on and on...

She has a new doctor again since moving closer to us who is 'tough' on her which is good! Her husband is going to al-anon meetings to deal with his experience in all this, she has zoom group therapy meetings and meditations. The salon example doesn't sound like a big deal and really it isn't, it was just the fact that she needed her hand held through every step of the way which is such a slippery slope for those of us around her because she truly can't count on us for all these daily things, we have jobs and simply can't be there for her all the time, not to mention I know if she actually TRIES she can do it, she really can. She gives up immediately without much effort. She needs to be constantly coaxed for everything.

Her priorities are all wrong also, her vanity is more on her mind then being more independent. She always wants to go shopping and get her hair done and they have NO money for all that, they really have lost all their money because of medical bills etc... FIL has veteran benefits and she has disability,

It's very difficult for her to see beyond herself and her wants and her suffering and I'm sure part of that is due to some cognitive damage causing her to be emotionally more like a child in some ways... If you give her an inch she takes 10 miles which is why me calling the salon for her would essentially just encourage her to keep getting me to do more things for her. I texted her the number and then stopped answering her calls because at that point she was just being excessively ridiculous about it because 100% she could call on her own at that point.

In many ways she's really 'with it' you can have normal conversations with her, her memory is intact, her sense of humor is still there, she has become really manipulative though, not because she's a bad person, but because it's become how she copes with being less independent. She's lost many friendships over the years and a doctor even dropped her as a patient for "wasting their time". All this advice is amazing but it sometimes feels like at this point if she hasn't 'learned her lesson' from her bad behavior I don't know that anything will help.

FIL has been vigilant with doctors and therapist etc. over the years, they've "tried everything" that's why my fiance has sort of given up... he's seen 15 years of nothing working and her not putting in the work, he's sort of come to terms with her continuing to live a sad/miserable life and dying miserable. I hope that doesn't sound too morbid and insensitive.

Thank you for sharing all the thoughts and advice and I will practice these ideas because even though it seems hopeless we still should always try to live a meaningful life !
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I am in the same boat with my mother except I am the only caregiver. Husbands have pre-deceased us and brother lives in FL. Many of the answers here are somewhat how I handle my mother but some are just not a way I would handle anything. I am a fighter and a solution finder to problems though. I understand we all have to deal with things in our own way. So, after much research and speaking with her doctors, I have started taking a more holistic approach to my mothers care. This has done wonders for her and for me. At an appointment with her primary last week he said all her test results are the best that have been going 2 years back. So, the changes I have made for her have made a difference for all of us. Yes, sometimes changes just need to be made (after research and doctor consult)and not look for permission from the person you are taking care of. My mum was and still is a complete sugar junkie. Anything and everything sweet and she wants it. And the drug store pills - out of control. Always giving me a call or coupon or asking the doctor about whatever she saw on a commercial or saw an ad for in the paper. So, I am thankful that she now trusts my decisions, this took a sit down with her doctor though to help her understand anything I do is approved by him and we are all trying to improve her situation as much as we can. We started with some aromatherapy. This has helped with many things. Attitude, motivation, cooperation, sleeping. As for the sugar stuff. I buy her sugar-free options. Ice cream was the easiest one. We switched over to a reduced sugar frozen yogurt. Her favorite is the Yasso brand but it depends on what she is in the mood for. She thinks the Skinny Cow ice cream sandwiches are prettier than regular ones so likes those too. For better sleep, which fixes a multitude of problems, I give her melatonin gummies. She happily takes these because she sees them as candy ;). The melatonin is better because it is a natural chemical and some brands use botanicals to help calmness and sleep. We use the Olly brand. We also added a ginger and tumeric with black pepper supplement. This helps with inflammation and pain. Her legs and feet have minimal swelling now (prior to this her legs and feet were so swollen she could not walk) and has started taking a walk around the neighborhood a couple days a week with me. Prior to all of this. She was depressed, mean and did not want to do anything except sit in her recliner and "wait for her day" to come. Yes. It is a process and a stroke does some real damage. Our other thing is that we take Sunday "off". This means if she wants to just sit and color or read or watch tv, then that is what we do. This is for both of us. I am still there but give her free reign to do what she wants instead of what she needs to do. I hope you can find a good solution to your situation and everyone can work out their "day off". If we don't take care of ourselves it is impossible to take proper care of anyone else. I find her aromatherapy helps me too.
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Great suggestions here on this board. But may I suggest the one thing that is very important and will become more so moving forward - YOUR mental health and the well being of your future husband. I don't mean to sound cruel and uncaring - but the more you involve yourself with the decision making process of your future ILs, the more you will come to resent this potential hot mess and it won't get any better after you marry. Trust me. Support your future husband (verbally) with supportive ear and verbal support, but in no way become "involved" with the decision making process or "running errands". It's your future husband's parents and he should be handling it. If he choices not to - then that's that. Doesn't mean you can't care for you inlaws, but in this instance, I would tread with caution. Once you open the Pandora's Box of Enabling - its impossible to shut.
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