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I'm sure this will be controversial to some, but our family is divided on this topic. Mom is 90. She was a very independent person, active in church, used to teach line dancing at senior centers, loved her sweets, loved doing family gatherings with lots of food, and loved the freedom of jumping in her car and going anywhere she wanted to go. That was 4 or so years ago. Diagnosed with dementia/Alz and can no longer drive. Has diabetes and can no longer have sweets, Cooking and eating are now basic limited and she gets no enjoyment from either. She has talked for more than a few years that she is ready to 'go home'. Her typical day is to go to mass every morning, after which she comes home and sits in her recliner. Gets up for lunch (usually a sandwich), then goes back to the recliner or goes to lay down, repeat at supper, and then to bed. She has several of us who are in and out, providing 24x7 care. One sister insists that we push to keep her "healthy", and closely monitors everything she eats and drinks. Another sister is more inclined to give her whatever she wants, but after years of this same routine, she rarely asks for anything different. Personally, I would prefer to tell her to forget all the rules and do whatever will give her some joy. Want Maple Nut goodies? Here is the bag, go for it! Want to go take a walk on the beach. Let's go! Want to turn on some music and dance? Big band or country! Bottom line, what is the purpose of life if not to live?

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Let her do what she wants. She's earned it.

A few months ago at the doctor's, my 91 year old mom told the doc that she didn't like using her oxygen (supplemental at night) or her inhaler for COPD because it gave her a sore throat and nose bleeds. She also doesn't like the diuretics because she keeps having accidents. The doctor gave mom her blessing to stop taking all of it. Privately the doctor told me that mom's meds are the very smallest of band aids. At this point, mom has congestive heart failure (20% function), MGUS - a blood disorder that won't kill her but causes severe bone pain all over her body, COPD, and fronto-temporal dementia. Daily mom is in pain, depressed, angry, paranoid, and confused. As the doctor put it, this is only going to get worse and her quality of life is already poor. If the meds she's taking have side effects that make her feel bad and aren't really preventing further deterioration, what's the point? I hugged that doctor that day. It was sanest, most humane attitude I've seen in any health professional yet. At a certain point, it's time to let go, enjoy whatever time you have left and accept that to everything there is a season. Peace.
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SonOutOfState Oct 2019
Yes, I compare it to a really bad remake of Groundhog Day. Glad you did find one doc who understands and showed compassion.
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So today I am taking my 92 yo mother with dementia who can barely see, or hear, or walk and has the mind of a 5 yo to the clinic... again, to listen to a Dr. again tell her there is nothing that can be done for her intermittent chronic back pain.  In a week she will forget this trip, claim she hasn't seen a Dr. for years, and insist I make her an appt.  And so it goes...over and over.  She lives in an assisted complex with my 88 yo father who underwent pacemaker surgery a few months ago (against his original plan not to prolong his life) so that he would be there for my mom.  They are both so "ready to go" and my father and I can only cope and pray for death as we watch my mother decline; knowing that at some point she will be too much for him to handle and end up in "24-hour lockup"....so sad.  And such a terrible way to remember the parents I love so much.  Some days I am afraid one or both of them will outlive me and there will be nobody to make sure they get good care...but what can I do?
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Windyridge Sep 2019
Black Angel, I had a very similar situation, both parents in AL, dementia and tons of health problems. Between them there were 6 or 8 docs, I couldn’t even keep it all straight. I put them on the in house doc plan and ended all the stupid visits to the specialists who would deem them just fine but would want a follow up visit.

I sort of started my own palliative care plan. Mom has a fall, yes, we need xrays. But I quit the never ending doc visits. A podiatrist came through once a month, they got routine checkups by an RN or NP.

Docs need to learn what your car mechanic does. At some point it doesn’t make sense to put a new tranny in a car with 200 K miles and lots of rust.

I also was afraid they’d outlive me. After a series of horrible falls mom died about 1 1/2 years ago. Dads still hanging on in memory care. He’s 89 and doesn’t limp as much as me when we take a walk.
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i agree with quality over quantity.

Sometimes I just don't understand doctors... my grandma is on deathwatch now, no food nor water for 4 days so far, and heavy morphine. However she still has terrible anxiety but the Dr ordered her anti-anxiety meds removed as "they interact badly with the morphine."
WTF. She has days left, for real, and they are leaving her whispering "help help help help" on repeat while she dies over days, because 2 meds don't interact well?

That's taking caution too bloody far!! What risk are they reasonably hoping to mitigate?
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SonOutOfState Sep 2019
My older brother passed a little over a year ago now. When he went to Hospice, they did all the vitals and assessments and said he would likely be gone in 2-3 days. They were amazed that he hung on for 11 days (no food and no water, just meds for pain)...with the last six days of us thinking we were saying our final good-byes every 4 to 6 hours. The human spirit to live is, imho, stronger in some than in others. He was mentally gone the last few days, but his body simply did not want to give up. It is so hard to see our loved ones go through this.

Prayers that she will pass soon.
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My mother will be 94 next month. Diabetic, bad eyesight, bad knees (1 replaced, 1 not), dementia, high blood pressure, has traveled the world, drove until we made her stop, loves sweets, especially chocolate & ice cream. We tried to have her watch her diet, and sodium, didn’t work. After awhile we just let her go. At 94, I believe it’s a little too late to change her ways. She has always done and ate whatever she wants. And we got tired of hearing her whine about it. Her cardiologist agreed that if you can’t eat what you want at 94, life is not worth living. That was 2 yrs ago and she is still here, eating ice cream and chocolate everyday!
I would say the same thing to your mom at her age. Let her be happy in her final years. And I would say the ones who don’t agree with that, need to think about how they will care for her 24/7/365 keeping her alive for years to come. Sounds selfish to me.
Don’t get me wrong, I love my mother to death, and if she were 60 or 70 I would be watching her like a hawk. But I really believe with all the medical marvels and drugs , people are living way past their expected lifetime, to what , lay in bed and be more or less a vegetable because their bodies have failed them? Just my opinion. Good luck!!
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Personally, I would prefer to tell her to forget all the rules and do whatever will give her some joy.

Your words, Not mine: I AGREE. She is 90... let her live life ... Let nature take its course.

Have fun play music.. laugh, cry, smile. enjoy the time with her... You have family - backup.... I did not the last year.....
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SonOutOfState Sep 2019
Sorry you did not have any family to help...I am 99% certain I could do this alone...but, then again, the decision would be mine alone, and we would spend our last day on a sugar high! Yet another example of an old adage, 'there is no such thing as a one-sided coin'. Every issue, viewed differently, has pluses and minuses.
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This is such a great topic/debate! I'm the caregiver for my 87 yr old mother-in-law. She's been in & out of hospice.... currently out (another topic for another day). She was released from hospital yesterday & her blood sugar was over 400 & she had a UTI. She is a changed woman... She is moody & mean & wants to die. But the doctor made the comment that she needs to be on a diabetic diet. Really? Ugh.
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SonOutOfState Sep 2019
As someone else commented, there is a point where all of this borders on 'cruel and unusual'! Mom has been "ready" to go for more than a few years. She has buried 2 of her children, grandchildren, and even one great-grand. She is existing, but hard to say that she is living. The one thing I have learned is that I now have an appoint with my attorney to modify my will and living will to explicitly state that I want no part of this when my time comes. I want a 'Kovorkian' to step in when/if I am ever in a similar state. I think 6 states now have 'death with dignity' laws on the books...hope that spreads!!
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"To be or not be!? That is the question!"

If medicine will give you extra years of quality life...then by all means extend it!  But if it is going to suck out the joy of living...then what's the point?  Oh, yeah...more meds needed, more money for pharma!

Here's where I struggle...I've read so many posts, and all those here on this question...and I see a common age number...older than 80!  But my mom is in a NH...and she is only 66!  She has a neurological disorder and she has diabetes...does she care?  By what she eats, you would think not!  Her doctor once told us to "let her eat what she wants!"...my jaw dropped...I tried in moderation while she was living with me, cause she is still in diabetes medications.   But now that she is in a NH she eats as she pleases...and now her glucose levels are the highest they've been since she moved to my home and then to the NH.  And here's the kicker...she says that "she doesn't know why!?" 

If your LO wishes to eat whatever they want...they better be ok with whichever consequence that brings...if they don't want us nagging, then don't complain when things get hard to control.  Part of me wants her to have better eating habits...but that is a lost battle if I ever saw one!  I'm at the point of if they don't care about their own health...then why should I loose sleep over it?

So bottom line would be...what does your loved one wants?  And are they willing to live with the consequences?
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SonOutOfState Sep 2019
Mom is now 'late stage' Alz/dementia. She will say we should all leave her alone. But her ability to understand the consequences of her statement has long since passed. My belief is that my mom lost her first child (a younger brother) due to complications of a disease. After a few days in the hospital, she was the one who walked over and unplugged the machine keeping him alive, saying 'he has suffered enough' (and just to be clear, the docs and a nurse were in the room at the time). If we peel back the layers of the initial post, there is certainly an underlying question - we will end a life if the suffering is physical, should the same compassion apply if it is mental/emotional? She so does not want to be alive, but her physical body is not ready to quit.
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Just a thought, but have you asked your mom this question?
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SonOutOfState Sep 2019
At this stage, we can ask mom questions, but her responses show no signs that she understands the potential consequences. We took her car away almost 4 years ago, and she insists she could (and should be allowed) to drive again. She was telling me a few days ago that she was upset that my brother and a friend were at her house taking things earlier that day. I gently reminded her that he has been dead for more than a year. She said, "Yes I know, but he was here earlier today."
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I vote for Quality over Quantity.
But it depends on the situation. In your case with your mom..Quality over Quantity. I doubt that restricting her sweets and being real serious about what she eats is going to prolong her life by years.
Me on the other hand...I would love to do noting but have my sweets but I am a "healthy" person and have a "discussion" with myself in the morning when I step off the scale. So I do kinda sorta watch what I eat. I could use your sister telling me what to eat and what not to eat!
Back to your mom.
I would say let her have her sweets, go for that walk (1 walk on the beach negates the effects of 2 of her Maple Walnut sweets {I always wondered who ate those!})
I might draw the line if she wanted to go Zip lining or sky diving though.
Let her live her life to the best she can for as long as she can.
No one wants to loose a parent but it will happen, that is the way it is supposed to happen. No amount of Brussels Sprouts, Kale, Multi vitamins, ice cream or Maple Walnut candy will change that.
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Isthisrealyreal Sep 2019
Just curious, why would you draw the line at ziplines or skydiving?
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A few years ago I saw the movie
“ Being Mortal”. It was presented by a local Hospital. It was open to the public and it was followed by a discussion among the many viewers.
It had a great impact on me as I saw how people faced the end of life here in the United States.
Some were at peace, telling
their loved ones that this is the natural course of earthly life and they should not be sad, but hold on to the good memories...
Others were angry, scared, isolated...Everyone has the freedom to choose based on their beliefs...
During the open discussion with the viewers of the movie “Being Mortal”, was when a Physician, sitting among us viewers. He introduced himself and said: “ When I see that my Patients in the Hospital desire to smoke, or ask for a glass of wine,
I write orders to the Cafeteria Staff, to bring cigarettes, sweets, wine or whatever the Patients want!
Why deprive them of the very few pleasures left at that stage of life?
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Treeartist Sep 2019
I read the book but didn’t know there was a video. I’m going to check YouTube.
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If your LO is competent and of sound mind let them do what they want and eat what they want and drink what they want and smoke what they want. This is what my 95 year old mother who lives alone tells me all the time. She’s an adult and can live it any way she wants and for me to stop being a NAG!!!!!
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Before my 98 yr old mother went from my brother's home into AL, we were of the same mind. Let her eat whatever she wanted. However, at my brother's house, her diet consisted of fast food and frozen dinners and a sedentary lifestyle. For three years under their care, she suffered with heartburn, constipation, dizzy spells, and eventually heart and kidney failure. She'd eat what she wanted at their house then come to my house for the weekend and in the middle of the night she'd go into distress from no activity and bad food. I had to call an ambulance on two separate occasions because of excess fluid shutting down her heart and kidneys. She went from no medication to meds for blood pressure, heart, and a diuretic. Now she's in AL and getting a balanced diet and proper meds and she's doing great. I think she'll live forever. However, she keeps saying she wants to die. So yeah, now what?
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There's no question (in my mind) that we're just prolonging death, cuz the multiple meds & treatments just extend our last years: (old age). It's obvious that people don't get 'cured' of aging, but drug companies give us false hopes & the side effects just keep adding up. (So they give us even more pills: for the side effects!) Sadly, many elderly go bankrupt over medical costs, or skimp on groceries to pay 4med care.
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SonOutOfState Sep 2019
Agree with you 100%...saw a stat that the US average is that more than 90% of one's lifetime spending on medical care will occur in the last year of life. Prolonging death is not the same as sustaining life.
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I agree with the sugar within reason and what everybody else here says. My mom was feeding my naturally skinny and declining dad what SHE wanted/needed to eat - low fat rice, veggies, chicken breast, etc..those kinds of meals. She also said she wanted his cholesterol to stay low ( which was okay, it was her cholesterol that needed more watching. ) Of course my Dad was getting skinnier and weaker so I said screw it and the last 8 months of his life brought him his favorite meals as often as I could, which were things like lasagna and extra cheesy enchiladas . We're talking cheese bomb style enchiladas.

He ate those up. Did his cholesterol rise? Most certainly, but shoot he died of cancer. I regret nothing!

And now I tear up when I'm around enchiladas.
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If I get to 90 I want whatever the heck I want. She has a few things that gives her happiness let her enjoy them.
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SonOutOfState Sep 2019
Jan, I am working with my attorney to revise my will....my instructions to her were to be as clear as possible that I do NOT want to live if I can no longer do any of a list of 5 specific tasks, including feeding myself, being mobile, recognizing loved ones, etc. If the law allows it, put me down, as we would all do to a family pet.
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Personally I would do exactly that.....forget all the rules. The only thing I would deny her is something that made her physically ill and caused her to vomit or have diarrhea or constipation. Beyond that, why not let her have what she wants.
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You have the right idea, except one thing, sugar. If sugar gets out of hand, that is another ball game to get out of hand. There are sugarless treats, maybe, you could find some, she would like. Put on the musica & dance, dance, dance, the night away & have a picnic in a park. At this stage in life, push your limits, as long as it doesn't make things worse. From the sounds of it, her life, she is living, I would rather be six feet under (sorry) Have good conversations, walk somewhere, in beauty, oh, Hells bells have an old fashion water fight. LOL Let me start, I wish I could!!!
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I know I've already piped in here a couple of times but I just had to add, what's so special about eating a bag of M & M's or polishing off a big vat of ice cream etc. I find these days when I eat things like that I don't even enjoy them as much as I thought I would. I end up feeling sick and sorry I ate them. I think it's the depriving yourself of things that make them seem so desirable in the first place.

Instead, allow yourself a treat now and then and don't feel guilty about it instead.
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Kathy4177 Sep 2019
I think the original poster is speaking about his/her loved one wanting treats.
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I’m 57 years old. I don’t want to live to be 90 and be a burden on my family. My mother is 95 and I’m done arguing with her over anything and everything. If she wants to gamble the rest of her money away so be it. I’ll take her to the casino because she told me that’s the only thing in this world that makes her happy. If she wants to eat cookies all day, so be it. I’m not going to stop her. She is of sound mind and competent according to her doctors and lived alone. Who am I to tell her how to live?
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Yes, indeed, Midkid. You nailed it. Carpe diem! You know what gets me? The way old folks go on and on about the Sweet By and By, Jesus waiting with open arms, pearly gates and Heavenly rest and all that—then when it looks as if all that wonderful stuff might be THEIRS real soon, they backtrack and want to cling to this earthly life...long after they are enjoying it. Long after they have any dignity left, sometimes. Eat. All. The. Things. If relishing ice cream, fried goodies, a bottle of wine, or a big honkin’ bag of M&Ms means you die prematurely at 94 instead of 104, well...
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keithensoma Sep 2019
Yes! Dad telling everyone he is ready 'to go' now, then on his 89th birthday he tells us he wished for 10 more years. LOL
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My 95 year old Mother is a gambling addict. She is at the casino right now. My son dropped her off. She always told me the purpose of her life is the casino.
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My dad has congestive heart failure that is the most likely scenario for taking his life. He goes into the hospital every 2-3 months and has fluid drained, he calls it his “tune up” While there he’s always placed on the cardiac diet, and the complaints are loud and constant. His discharge paperwork always reads “low sodium and no fried foods” My dad is nothing if not determined, and there’s usually a stop on the way home for fried chicken and some pie. We spent a long, fruitless time trying to convince him this was a bad idea. Then we came to see that he’s lost so many of the joys of life, his taste buds are dull, and even his main cardiologist doesn’t try to dissuade him, so we backed off. He eats as he pleases, snacks often, loves chocolate and fried anything. And life is much more pleasant since we all backed off
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I believe in letting seniors eat what they want unless there is a bad immediate consequence. My maternal grandfather and father both died of CHF and went through a period where salt intake had to be restricted. Extra salt has immediate consequences for late stage CHF: painful swelling in the feet and hands; sometimes the skin will actually split from swelling and it's doesn't heal well because circulation is impaired; and, shortness of breathe with the feeling of drowning as the lungs fill with fluids. So we watched the salt intake.

My mother has always loved sweets, ice cream and fresh fruits so she gets them everyday. Last night's supper was one of her favorites - cheeseburger with all the fixings, well browned french fries, and a strawberry milkshake. Mom's general health is excellent and she has no dietary restrictions. We usually eat healthy but once or twice a week we have a meal that just tastes good!
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keithensoma Sep 2019
This is where I am with my dad's diet. Any salt will blow him up like a balloon and his legs will weep then we are really in trouble. He loves salt! He is 90 and deserves to eat what he wants so I let him have the sweets but try very hard to keep his salt intake down.
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I think that quantity without quality is cruel and unusual punishment.

Your mom should be allowed to live her life on her terms. She should have some enjoyment in the things she can do, I think that she has lost enough without losing everything.
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I think you have to be careful with this simply because none of us knows when we are going to die. If your mom is in her nineties logic would dictate that yeah she probably isn't long for this world. But what if she lives another ten years. How those ten years are experienced by her is dependent on how she takes care of herself now.

So basically what I'm saying is for sure, let her enjoy things but in moderation. She doesn't have to stick to a strict regiment but she shouldn't just throw caution to the wind and have a free for all kind of life either.

I've always felt that how you take care of yourself when you are young. In this case young being in your forties, fifties, sixties will dictate how you spend your seventies, eighties and nineties. But like I said earlier, if your mom were to live another ten years then how she lives now will be a predictor of how her last ten years will be.

So, let her eat cake and cookies once in a while. Let her dance on the coffee table if she wants. Probably not a good idea but you know what I mean.
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SonOutOfState Sep 2019
Just had a visual of mom dancing on the coffee table and almost chocked on my drink...lol.
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Well we did both. Tried to have healthy meals but also let her eat some sweets. Right now we are letting her eat whatever she can because it is soft diet only. She is on Hospice care now and I'm glad that she got to enjoy things that she liked. Now in Hospice she sits there with her favorite lollipops. Eating nothing but sweets would make pain and arthritis worse, but not eating any would make you unhappy.
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In my opinion, let her have and do what she wants. Being a diabetic, I would give her the Maple Nut Goodies but within reason. The woman is 90! Let her live the rest of her life the way she wants. If she wants to sit and watch TV all day, let her. If she wants to take a little walk, let her. If she is ready to go, let her. As my RN daughter says, at 90 she is past her exasperation date. She's lived her life the way she wanted to so far, let her continue. The last thing she wants is her children telling her what to do.
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SonOutOfState Sep 2019
I agree...just need to get the siblings on the same page...maybe easier said than done. Last week when I was with her, she had an appointment with the heart doc. His notes, based on his interaction with her, described her as 'late stage Alz'. In the last year, she has gone from 8-9 hours of sleep per day to now 14-16 hrs per day.

She is physically declining and my mindset is (to be blunt) screw heath issues at this point. My sisters argument is that if we ignore the diabetes and other issues, it will likely create multiple stints in the hospital. She has been in twice for UTI infections and once when her blood sugar got out of control.

I am now on a rotation with two other sibling and we have CNAs come in to fill the gaps when none of the 3 of us can be there. So yes, she is still alive, but she is not living!
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IMO time to let go and let her eat and do what she wants to do. I did that with my dad and I am so happy that I did, his last year was good, and he told me so. He loved M&M's so he ate them, he was a cookie monster, he ate cookies. Diabetes be dammed....he died of cancer...not diabetes, which he had for 30 years!

No need for the diet requirements, it didn't speed up his death one bit.
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SonOutOfState Sep 2019
Would like to have met your dad and had a debate of who was the real 'cookie monster'...lol. Years ago I moved into a new neighborhood. In the first few days, a young girl scout came by and asked if I would like to buy some GS cookies. So I took her sheet and ordered 50 boxes of thin mints and another 50 boxes of various other flavors. 15 Minutes later, I hear a knock at the door and it was the young girl's mom asking if this order was for real. I assured her that it was!
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My aunt wanted her coffee and donuts every morning, and she ate that way for 7.5 years with us.  She refused 'Ensure' and a lot of 'healthy' things, and it made little difference.  At 90, if I live so long, I want the best home-made icecream I can get.
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elaine1962 Sep 2019
My Mother is 95 years old. She tells me she doesn't recommend getting old. It sucks!!
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Whatever the angel wants, the angel shall get, she deserves it. It doesn't sound like she asks for much.
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