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Father in Law has been hospitalized three times now in the past couple months and each time he is stabilized and behaves very well and gets released. However every assisted living/memory care he has been placed in, despite medication for his agitation, he gets violent and trashes his room, threatens staff and other patients and gets kicked out on his first day there. Every time. I don't think we have any options left. We already had to move him to a different state as our home state had no more places that would accept him. We cannot have him in our home as it would not be safe for ourselves and especially our children.



Feeling lost and unsure what to do or what comes next.

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First, I’d have a few of questions. See if the hospital (perhaps the social worker there) can give any suggestion about WHY FIL’s behavior improved in the hospital? Did they give him different or more drugs? Did he get more visits, more company? WHY do they think his behavior would have deteriorated so quickly back in each facility? Any other guesses?

Then much the same questions for the facilities he has been chucked out of. Were they giving him the same drugs as the hospital? How quickly did he deteriorate (three times in a couple of months means it wasn’t instant). Did there seem to be any reason for him to go downhill?

Next, more details about how he is “violent and trashes his room, threatens staff and other patients”. In particular, what was the violence? What were the threats? Did he actually make physical contact with staff or other patients? Was he making demands, and if so what? Did the facility consider calling the police, rather than evicting him? And where did he go, if he didn’t go to your home? If it was to another facility, who found it for him?

If you are really running out of options, I’d suggest that the police do get called, and he goes into the law enforcement mental health system. But as you will be asked a lot of questions, I’d try to get answers to the points I’ve set out above.
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DCorrelle Apr 2023
It almost seems like he is able to showtime in the hospital. He seems to have more respect for the environment and that there are more authoritative figures available in an instant. One of his requests when he gets agitated and wants to leave is for staff to call the police. In hospital they have called a security guard to talk to him and that works if their uniform is police-like enough. If police are not called immediately, he begins getting violently angry. He also experiences paranoia and he has no respect for women outside of a hospital and does not shy from hitting/hurting them. It can't just be the scrubs as those were worn in assisted living as well. When my husband would visit him in the hospital he would be sweet to the nurses/staff but then as. soon as they were gone he would turn to my husband and say they were horrible/keeping him against his will/paranoid conspiracy theories.

I think he associates hospital somehow as temporary and then he can go home, so I don't know how but manages to keep it cool there so he can leave. But he can't go home and he doesn't understand that. His confusion is too great at times to be alone and he was self harming. His violence too great to be with us. He is divorced from his wife for physical and verbal violence towards her and before he was hospitalized/302d for the first time in the past few months he had turned his paranoia on me, began stalking like behaviors, threatened to kill me and had a plan to do it (which he told me through phone messages and then called my husband and walked him through the plan and told him to keep it a secret...). He then vaguely threatened he could just kill himself, my husband and our kids so they could be together forever without me. He confuses me with his ex wives at times as well. We used to have a good (enough) relationship.

As for the violence in assisted living memory care, he has punched staff members in the face. He has broken glass and held pieces of it up to threaten with. He has set off fire alarms. He picked up a table and threw it through a window. He took off his belt and used it as a whip. In other facilities police and ems were called, and took him to hospital and then we are told the facility cannot handle him and he is not welcome back. He stays in the hospital until a new place is found by a team of social worker (new one each time), a placement specialist (same one each time) and my husband.

His most recent I do not know many details about yet but he was placed in a group home setting with what seemed like more experienced staff who understood his needs/triggers. The plan was to keep him more sedated for a few days while he got used to the place and slowly taper off to see if they could as the hospital only had him on low doses for anxiety. All I know is, again, first day there, and he woke up from a nap, got angry and began trashing his room. My husband had to go back and take him to a hospital again. I am awaiting more details, all I got yesterday was his room was destroyed and he had injured himself as well in the process of raging. I don't think he is able to understand the consequences of his raging out but he does seem to sort of understand that when he does, his son comes to get him (or meet him at the hospital) so it's all okay.

We're exhausted and confused. He seems to both understand/has "logical answers" for his behavior AND not understand what he is doing and just is going downhill so fast.
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It is terrible that dementia seems to bring on agressive behaviour in some people.

Behaviour is usually communication - but with dementia, even if you can identify the issue, it doesn't mean the situation gets resolved eg Being prevented from leaving the Memory Care building is probably quite a common problem.

It seems medication to manage FIL's behaviour has not worked in the longer term.

I think it will take a combined effort between FIL's representative (Guardian/POA) his Medical Team & a Social Worker to locate another suitable accommodation option.
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Thank you.

I just need to know if this is going to be a neverending cycle of placements and getting kicked out or if there is even a place with the ability to handle this. They say they can, until they experience him...
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Someone with more knowledge than me will have to weigh in on what I'm about to say - so please take this with a grain of salt. The behaviors you describe are incredibly scary.

He has threatened to kill you. (apparently in a great deal of detail)
He has threatened to kill your family.
He has assaulted staff members, with improvised weapons.
He has threatened to kill himself.

That's an awful lot of violence.

In a person that didn't have dementia and or mental capacity issues - this wouldn't even be a thought for law enforcement, family members, social workers and medical professionals. He would immediately be put on a psychiatric hold.

So for those who are more in the know- is this a thing for those with dementia when their behavior is beyond what anyone can manage? Is there a more humane way to protect both the patient and those around them and keep them safe, while keeping them in a facility that is more locked down and with stronger medications that keeps them more leveled off like a psychiatric patient rather than just a memory care patient?

I am not trying to be insensitive at all. This sounds like a nightmare for DCorrelle and like their family is running out of options and I honestly don't know where families that get to this point turn to if their family member cannot be managed through the regular channels.

Do they offer the stronger medications in the memory care facilities? Are they allowed to keep them in the same "state" that a psychiatric facility would be allowed to keep their patients for their own safety if need be? Is this even something that is allowable within a patient's rights?

Again, I'm honestly not trying to be insensitive. I'm not a huge proponent of keeping patients constantly catatonic or numb all the time- but it sounds like DCorrelle's FIL needs something much stronger to calm him down and level him off enough to allow him to stay in a facility and I don't know what level of medications memory care facilities are actually allowed to administer to their patients before they need to be moved to psychiatric care.
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DCorrelle Apr 2023
These are all of the same questions running through my mind. How do we keep him and others safe if we exhaust all options. He absolutely can not be allowed to come to our home and it terrifies me that it could come to no other option but that.
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First of all and you already know this, you must NEVER take your father-in-law into your home.

Secondly, much is missing here.
The first thing we need to know is what is your father's diagnosis?
Is he mentally ill? They are releasing him as stable. That indicates mental illness, not dementia.
Is he diagnosed with FTD or other dementias notorious for violent acting out? If so the facilities are practicing unsafe discharges and should be reported to the state.

Thirdly, who is POA for this gentleman? Is there a conservator or guardian?
You say he is being thrown out of care. Where are they discharging him to? The streets?

I am going to assume this man is mentally ill. Because I cannot imagine three hospitalizations and discharges otherwise.
My suggestions, then, are the following.
Someone is being "called" to intervene or to be notified about these incidents of being kicked out of care. That person is either POA/guardian or not.
If there is NO POA/Guardian I would tell anyone NOT TO TAKE it on but to leave FIL in the hands of the state. A court will appoint a fiduciary and they with Social Services will manage this man. He will be placed and in a facility, if assessed as having dementia, that will medicate him to the level necessary. If he has mental illness he will be discharged when stable with medications he is unlikely to take, and will be followed by the police and social services of his statte.
There will not be a discharge if he is suffering from dementia. If he is mentally ill there may be a discharge.

I would disengage with this COMPLETELY. This man is either mentally ill or suffering dementia to the extent he represents to YOU and to our SOCIETY at large a clear and present danger.

I wish you the best. But you have no power in this. I would keep away from it. You didn't cause this and you cannot fix this and it has the power to destroy your family utterly.
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DCorrelle Apr 2023
My husband, his only child is POA. He was given POA before any of this began.

His only diagnosis is "dementia" (no type specified)*EDIT, sorry it does say alzheimers dementia on one of his papers* and anxiety/depression. I strongly believe there is more going on, but keep getting the dementia as the only real answer.

He is not told he is being thrown out of care until he taken to the hospital each time. It is my understanding that assisted living facilities can do so and say they are not equipped to provide for his needs any longer. He does not qualify for a nursing home as he is very physically capable. He stays in the hospital until a new facility is found to take him. Lather, rinse, repeat.

When I say they say he is stable, they are meaning he is calm and able to handed off to a facility "safely." And he is. Until he gets there and flips out.

Apologies if I don't explain things entirely correctly...this is a whole new, incredibly stressful world and I am overwhelmed.
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While my in-laws are not violent, they loved, absolutely loved, being admitted to the hospital. The family visits, the flowers, the concern from staff. It’s reinforcing, so I think ur fil needs to know how it is without this.
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You said, "He absolutely can not be allowed to come to our home and it terrifies me that it could come to no other option but that". They cannot force you to take him into your home under any circumstances, so don't worry about, or even consider that.

If they threaten you saying it's either you take him or he ends up on the streets... point him to the nearest bridge to sleep under. This is a dangerous and violent individual.

If your husband insists he lives at your home, move out that day with the kids and file for divorce.

He needs to be made a ward of the state asap.
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AlvaDeer Apr 2023
I couldn't agree more. Unfortunately they are already POA and it isn't just a simple thing to resign POA once an individual is incompetent, but rather a court procedure. They should resign POA at once with the help of an attorney. He should be a ward of the state and never let into their home. The social system will lie, cheat and steal to try to get him placed with them. They need to learn the word NO fast.
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ZippyZee is right. You do not have to take him in for any reason. When he gets thrown out of enough facilities he will become a ward of the state and they will have to find him a place. What happens then is the state gives permission to drug him into oblivion the second he acts up in whatever facility he's palced in.
It's not your problem to deal with. You have a home and kids. Don't get involved. Let the state handle him.
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@Alva

You are mistaken. They can simply resign POA by going through APS and filing paperwork in the probate court.
No one needs a lawyer.
I know a few people who actually got themselves removed from being a POA by doing exactly this.
It's not that hard to get yourself removed as a POA. In fact, the easiest route to getting removed as a POA is to do it through the hospital while someone is admitted. Their social workers get that done fast.
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AL and MCs are not the place for FIL. They cannot care for someone like this. He needs at least a 72 hr hold. He needs more than a GP at an AL ordering his meds. He needs Phychiatric-Neurologist.

Its time to allow the State to take over his care. They will place him and hopefully get him the care he needs.
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@Burnt, yes, I am sure that there are other ways to get into the court system than with an attorney. I was NOT sure about the APS thing being legal in all states. My main point to our OP is that it is EASY to resign POA when patient is rational and well; as simple as letters and notifications. But when you are POA for someone no longer competent it does require a court action often enough. So whomever can help with that court action I am all for it. Important thing here is GET RID OF THAT POA. In my opinion it is a full time/expert job to try to manage care for someone in this condition. For me it would be impossible.
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BurntCaregiver Apr 2023
It really isn't difficult to get yourself removed as a someone's POA even when they are irrational or unwell. This is usually the only time a POA becomes active. When a person is in their right mind, they don't need someone else running their life. It's when they become incapacitated that they need their POA to take over.
If the current POA goes down to the probate court and files the papers to get removed as POA, they will do it. The the FIL becomes a ward of the state if no other family will take over.
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Back to my first answer, the issue is that your FIL has become a violent criminal who is not sane. Instead, people want to treat him as an elder with dementia, who needs the right sort of care.

No need to repeat all the ‘violent criminal’ symptoms you have already set out, no need to say that insanity is not his ‘fault’. We all know that. No sense in trying over and over again to work out ‘why’, failing every time. The point is that our community deals with many such people in appropriate facilities, which are NOT mainstream aged care facilities. Many of them also have grieving families. Shift the focus.
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Whatever medication your father in law is on currently is not the correct medication for his violent behavior! You need to get him to a neurologist immediately to get him on the right medication to stop all this. A family member needs to communicate to the neurologist what he is doing in order for this behavior to stop. Once the neurologist has an understanding of what is going on the correct medication will be prescribed immediately.
Your husband needs to help his father.
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I just want to clarify that I don't personally care where he is placed as long as it's not my home. At this point I don't feel concerned for his comfort (though I do feel guilty about my "lack" of feeling there). I was worried it would come to a point where that was his only option left if no other AL/memory care would accept him. The places he has been put in, have been at the recommendation of hospital social workers and an elder care placement specialist who all keep saying memory care is what he needs and they'll be equipped to handle him. He keeps proving that they can't.

I absolutely worry about him being around other people, but he is able to be charming in the hospital for the most part so the cycle keeps repeating.

I just wanted to know/prepare for what comes next because it seems it's going to keep happening until they run out of places to put him and that is going to happen fast. I appreciate all of your advice and those who let me know about ward of the state, etc. Lots of great advice and knowledge here and I am reading it all even if I don't respond individually. Thank you!
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betskand Apr 2023
Your situation is a nightmare...my husband is not (yet) violent except for a couple of times before doc got his Seroquil dose and times worked out by experimenting. In those several times he did things like throw a chair at me -- became incredibly strong even though he looked frail. I worked out a "protection scheme" for myself -- his bedroom has an inside lock, so I will lock myself in there if it happens again and perhaps call the police. I had a lock put on the door to the garage, which was his workshop. I don't want him coming after me with a hammer. I have been puzzling over what to do if his behavior eventually becomes uncontrollable and facilities send him home. Given some of the suggestions here it sounds as though surrendering POA to the state and letting them deal with it (I assume in somewhat the same way they would deal with the violently mentally ill) might be a good one. Otherwise...you truly do have the priority of protecting yourself and family, no matter who might think you are being unkind to FIL.
I have a friend whose MIL keeps getting sent home because she tears off her colostomy bag and sprays everyone and everything with the contents! I don't know if they still use strait jackets but this sounds like a situation where that might be necessary...
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DC, it sounds as though FIL needs to be in a locked psychiatric unit until the correct cocktail of medications is found.

Have any of the hospitals he's been in been specialized psychiatric hospitals, or are they regular psych units in regular hospitals?

Was there mental illness prior to the dementia disgnosis?
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DCorrelle Apr 2023
No, just regular hospital behavioral health units and ERs. He is currently in a hospital that has dedicated geriatric psychiatry unit though. So hopefully that can help/get us some answers.

Prior to dementia his only diagnosis was mild anxiety/depression. They were manageable without meds until recently.
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A specialized geri psych unit sounds like a good idea.

Does the treating doctor have access to his recent history of paranoia and homicidal/suicidal ideation and detailed planning?

Have any antipsychotic meds been trialed?
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A locked facility and have an MD review medications.
While 'trying to find the right meds,' a person can act out in aggressive ways (screaming, hitting, fighting (physically and verbally). Although this has been an ongoing situation with your FIL. I really feel deep compassion for him as he is expressing himself the only way he knows how - and it is confusion and fear, and likely how some drugs / meds are affecting him.

Do review his drugs / meds with a qualified MD or get a second opinion.
It is a very sad situation and unfortunately, he'll be looked at (by some) as the 'bad guy,' when in fact, it is likely meds and his changing brain.

I would suggest if it is safe to try gentle touch / massage. The oxytocins / (the "feel good" hormone) may calm him down.

- A person could start with lightly touching his hand and see how that goes ... then holding his hand, and then offering / doing a hand massage.

- Do have the practitioner or volunteer talk to him in a very soft, soothing voice.

- If he is receptive, try a foot massage. Neck, shoulders, head, arms, legs. It really depends on how he responds. I use coconut oil. It soaks into the skin and is not greasy and it doesn't stain.

- Start with 5-10 minutes depending on how he responds.

This quality / type of contact / touch could greatly benefit him. Although he has to be receptive to it, certainly approach slowly and gently.

Google massage / elders / touch.

(This is why my massage practice name was Touch Matters. It really does matter.)

Gena / Touch Matters
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PeggySue2020 Apr 2023
This patient has homicidal ideation against op and her whole family, Gina. He breaks glass and brandishes it. He throws heavy furniture.

No, he doesn’t need a massage, esp not from her.
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firstly i am a little surprised and saddened by some of the answers here. my loved one also has alzheimers and was never violent until after he was diagonosed. i had a similar problem in and out of homes/hospital etc. i finally found an independent facility who were willing to work with him and manage him. he's been there for over 2 and a half years. don't get me wrong it took a while however he is now stable. his meds have been adapted over the years - he was taking seroqul and currently takes risperdol. it's been a very long and hard journey to get him where he is today. i'm not sure what state you're in however if it's CA then let me know and i'd be happy to recommend this facility. If not there are places that find facilities for people - sure it's not easy - a lot of places won't take him- however there will be those that will. if they are able to manage your FIL and he has the correct medication - it's absolutely possible he will stabilize. I totally understand how difficult it is - my loved one was the same - breaking things, hitting out and so on. for the person who commented that your FIL is a 'violent criminal' and 'not sane' - shame on you!! our loved ones are still human beings regardless of this cruel disease. my loved one is NOT a violent criminal nor 'insane' - it's unfortunately part of the disease - some people are affected differently than others. i wish you lots of luck anyway in finding the right place for your loved one. i also just want to add - it is very difficult to know how to calm someone when they are behaving this way. however sometimes sitting my loved one on the sofa and letting him be worked fine, other times taking him outside or for a walk round the garden - it's not foolproof but it may help. it's possible your FIL is scared - it's not his fault. he doesn't understand what's happening - YOU do but to him he feels he's now living in a house full of strange people, not knowing where he is or what's going to happen to him. maybe just take a little time to read up on the disease and try and understand it some more. i understand you need to keep yourself and others safe - i get it - however understanding your FIL's perspective may benefit you also
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MargaretMcKen Apr 2023
OK your own “loved one is NOT a violent criminal nor insane”. Feel grateful for that. However jails are full of people who ARE ‘still human beings, regardless’ of what they have done - even criminal violence while insane. The challenge for society is to treat them decently while stopping them from harming others. I feel NO shame in saying that, and I suggest you question the common sense of your own comments.
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He needs right medication to get stabilized. He might have to have short stay in psychiatric hospital to get meds right. From there, he can be placed in skilled nursing facility for long term care. Hugs 🤗
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againx100 Apr 2023
Exactly.
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There are private facilities that take in people like your FIL. Check around your area. Call the local elder care group in your area for advice. You don't necessarily need to give up your POA unless you want to. Having h him in the right place is the key. When you find that, you don't have to visit him, but you will know he is cared for by people experienced in this kind of patient. Good luck!
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In response to Margaretmckens comment in response to mine. It was YOU who said the posters FIL was a ‘violent criminal’ and ‘insane’ so maybe YOU should check your OWN common sense before posting such cruel comments. The poster stayed her FIL has dementia. Yes he’s violent however this is NOT the same as the people you are referring to.
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PeggySue2020 Apr 2023
He has homicidal tendencies toward op. He fashions weapons. He throws heavy furniture.

The police can and do lock up people like this but unfortunately not until they maim someone.

Op should just walk. So should her husband.
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I don’t have advise for you other do whatever you can to keep yourself safe…hugs to you …
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What the problem here is, that there "are not facilities" that take people suffering from this kind of problem unless you maybe live near a city. Assisted livings and Memory cares are privately owned and do not provide this type of care. So for a SW to say they do is in LaLa land. All Memory care is just a step up from an AL. More of a locked down unit with hopefully staff trained in Dementia. Most aides are women they would not be able to handle a angry male.

In my State the closest Phychiatric hospital is 2 hrs north of here. Thats where those showing violent tendencies are taken. But its not permanent. Once they find the right combination of drugs, then the person is released to a Memory care facility. What is needed for those suffering from violent behaviour and those suffering from sexual behaviour is a place where there is appropriate staff, like men aides. That there is a neurologist/psychiatrist on the staff. A PCP/GP should not be prescribing meds for people with these tendencies.

Again, in this situation, I would let the State take over FILs care. No, its not his fault but its not his families fault either. He needs care that that average person can't give.
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Still reading and taking all of your advice in as it's added. Thank you!

To answer questions and thoughts about his medications...his violence/threats began before diagnosis/medication was given, so while I know meds can exacerbate things, I also know it may not be the meds either. It may just be him, less inhibited by the dementia. He was angry and violent with an ex-wife in the past..has smashed furniture and things in the past with her. He had never threatened me/my family until this year, though I know he had some resentment towards me (combination of me being a woman and me "taking his son away"). It may be a combination of the meds and his personality and the dementia (I don't personally think it's just the dementia, knowing his personality and background...but, I am not a doctor). I do think he is likely afraid, and upset at the upheavals and loss of his previous life. I can understand that. I think it's just...complicated.

I do not have a complete list of medications tried on him. I do know the hospitals/BHUs have ultimately been able to keep him calm with minimal meds, and low doses of what he has been on. He spent over a month in one when he was first diagnosed with dementia. It doesn't seem to make a difference what meds he is on when transferred to a new place (that isn't a hospital), he flips out regardless of adding additional meds to keep him calm/sedated or just keeping his meds the same as what kept him stable in the hospital. I will ask for a list of what he has tried, I assume there would be an antipsychotic in there..but my husband will have to get that list for me. I distanced myself from his care and haven't talked to his doctors or visited him in hospital or elsewhere, because I don't feel safe near him.
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AlvaDeer Apr 2023
As an old nurse--and I am sad to say this--there are few medications and medication cocktails that ever work. First of all someone in care isn't adequately assessed, and meds aren't titrated as there is no MD on premises. Secondly, even when the meds work temporarily, they seldom KEEP working.

That's the truth.

I would like to suggest you get and read Liz Scheier's memoir of her decades long attempt to help her aging mentally ill mother. It is called Never Simple.
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DC, where is your husband in all this? Is he actively participating in planning for his father?

Or would he like to "let go" and resign the POA and allow the State to take over as guardian?

I would suppport him in that.
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DCorrelle Apr 2023
He is participating in his care...to the best of his overwhelmed abilities. He does mostly let the social workers, etc figure out where to place his dad next, he tours the places and signs the papers but trusts their opinions. He transports his dad to facilities. He meets him at the hospital (or transports him there himself, in the most recent case. They thought it would help keep his dad calmer to be with his son. It generally does, but he can't be with him 24/7).

I would support letting go, for sure. But I am not sure that husband wants to do so until it's last resort. He wants to protect our family and supports me not being around his dad at all, but he is also clinging to the thought that it's all just the dementia (as the hospital that diagnosed him said it was). I know it's so hard for him regardless but especially so to think his dad would harm his family or him. His dad has been completely obsessed with him his whole life (honestly to the point where if it could be just him and his dad, other family out of the picture, his dad would be thrilled...hence the death threats) and he is very much the only child on a pedestal. He hadn't ever seen a negative side to his dad personally, only heard about it (from dad's ex wife...and me as his dad would get mad if I set boundaries around family time...if son set them it was fine) and found it hard to fully believe.
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Blue eyed girl 94 - I wasn’t suggesting that the posters FIL not be placed somewhere safe - I was just objecting to the ‘insane’ ‘violent criminal’ reference. I guess I feel more sensitive being as I’m going through it myself. My loved one was never violent until he became unwell. My situation is not dissimilar to the poster. Believe me I tried everywhere to get him admitted to a psych unit even offering to pay privately but no one could help. I eventually found a place myself. He was stable for a while then reverted back. I’m cutting a long story short here however I did find a facility that would take him. They were willing to mange him - it wasn’t easy! He was stable for a while but then became violent/agitated again. Luckily he got the help he needed and we changed his meds which seem to be working. He gets a little agitated here and there but nothing like he was. I can tell you I was absolutely determined he would not be left in some psych unit - I’ve fought a very long and hard battle to get him where he is today. I know everyone is different - people have various commitments and may not have the time, energy or resources to deal with this. I know first hand it’s not easy! I just dislike the reference to someone being called an ‘insane violent criminal’. Dementia is a cruel disease and people can’t help how it affects them. I wish the poster all the best in getting the help she needs for her FIL.
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PeggySue2020 Apr 2023
He fashions knives with broken glass, Debb. He wants to use them specifically toward op. And unfortunately, until he does that he’s not getting the care he needs to keep society including op safe.

Thats the first priority here.
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Dcorelle, your journey atarts with your husband.

He needs to not interact with his father in the hospital. The false calm he provides gets blown up over and over when he breaks glass for weapons and hurls furniture.

This is. Homicidal individual, especially toward you. Yes, go for the restraining order for yourself and the children.

If his behavior escalates in the hospital due to his not being coddled, that’s really for the best. They can handle him. Your dh cannot.
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DCorelle, I was thinking again about your FIL and the problems. Here is a guess, that might be worth considering.

You hit the right answers yourself, first in your post of April 1st, and second in your answer of April 2nd. FIL “has been completely obsessed with (your husband) his whole life (honestly to the point where if it could be just him and his dad, other family out of the picture, his dad would be thrilled...hence the death threats) and he is very much the only child on a pedestal”. FIL was violent to his ex-wife, and has no respect for women, including you and the largely female staff at any age care facility.

Peggy Sue said that her in-laws “loved, absolutely loved, being admitted to the hospital. The family visits, the flowers, the concern from staff”. For your FIL, add in more and longer visits from his son, and the female nurses appearing subservient to male doctors. That’s why he calmed down in hospital, not medication.

If this is still the problem, there could be a couple of useful ways to make it clear:
1) Next time FIL goes to hospital, your DH doesn’t visit. See if FIL calms down. If he doesn’t, they won’t send him back to a facility.
2) If FIL is in a facility, get your DH to take time off work to spend around the clock with him, meet female staff at the door to his room. See if FIL calms down. If he does, this also shows that it’s an obsession about his son and women, and it’s a mental illness issue which is not treatable in a normal facility.

I would still suggest that the best way to get FIL to somewhere capable of his care, is to call the police and charge him when he is violent and threatening. That will get him out of the age-care roundabout, and into somewhere set up for this behavior.

Sympathy and best wishes, Margaret
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MargaretMcKen Apr 2023
PS It's the only thing I can think of that is actually under the control of you and DH.
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My husband has FTD. We first placed him in a MC, he became violent after a few days and was sent to a locked behavioral hospital for med adjustment. He was released back to the MC. He was fine for a few weeks and then pushed another resident. ( He had gone in their room, the resident stood up and told him to get out). They kicked him out. We found another MC that was for Alzheimer's & Dementia ( I thought all MCs were!) He was there for a week or so and became violent. He was sent to a psych hospital over an hour away. Was there less than 24 hrs and was unresponsive. Was sent to a hospital with UTI and sepsis. They got that taken care of and he ended up in that hospital for almost a month because they couldn't find anywhere that would take him due to his past violent behavior. Finally he was sent to a SNF near our home. He was there a week and they sent him back to the first locked behavioral hospital ( without my knowledge - saw something happening on the camera and had to call to find out what was going on - that's a whole other story!) He's been at that SNF almost 11 months and he's been fine. He's been on Haldol and they've actually changed it to as needed. I think it's because his FTD has progressed. He's basically does not communicate, for the most part can do nothing in his own, but he can still walk.
My daughter talked with a psychiatrist who specializes in dementia after his second violent episode. She was told that there are some medicines (including ones he was on) that actually do not work for dementia patients and actually make the behaviors worse.
I pray that you are able to find a placement for your FIL.
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Sharonlee77 Apr 2023
See my story about my sister. Sounds much like your husband.
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I have been there and done that with my sister. She had frontotemporal dementia, which began in her early 40’s. She was never violent and actually was not diagnosed until about age 48/49. She first went to assisted living. Whereas she was young and physically strong, everyone else was in their 70’s and beyond. She was pretty stable there for about a year, although during that time she went from having an entire apartment to one room with a bath. She was thrown out of there after about a year for pushing down another resident and breaking her arm. Next she went to another assisted living/memory care home and became increasingly violent to the point that we had to have a private caregiver in her room 24/7, so we were paying double for her to stay there. During this time, she trashed her room daily to the point that they removed everything in it that she could destroy. She was physically violent with everyone who entered her room, and she had to stay in her room while other residents were out and about. This stay lasted about a month or two, as when she was admitted, they told us it was only temporary until we could place her somewhere else. Her violence was not aimed at anyone in particular, but at anyone who stood in her way. With the help of social services, we finally were able to place her at a facility that specialized in violent behavior and with the help of a neuropsychiatrist, they were able to get her under control with drugs. She basically stayed in a zombie-like state and walked and walked and walked the halls, sometimes not sleeping for 3 days at a time. They still had trouble keeping her in her room or even getting her to sit still long enough to eat, but she was no longer violent. It was both with relief and sadness that we finally decided, after a bad fall and her refusal to eat or drink, it was time for hospice. She lives another 12 days and died at age 51. She had decided early on to donate her brain to science and her cause of death was Pick’s disease. I hope in telling her story that it will give you some insight as to what you are facing. It’s a matter of finding the right help for your FIL and the right place to put him. If this means a geriatric psychiatric facility, so be it, but you need to keep your family safe. We did not have to give up our POA to get the resources we needed, but she lived in Washington, DC, so we had excellent resources available. I wish you the best of luck in finding the care that your FIL needs. Keep your family safe.
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