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Mally1, please thank your husband for his service and dedication to people in need.   If it weren't for people like this on the front lines, in medicine, law enforcement, military deployments, education and more, we who are at home wouldn't be anywhere near as safe as we are. 

People in caring professions make a lot of sacrifices of their lives, time and health.  They're a special breed of people.
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The pandemic is not over yet. Online Harvard person has stated that what we have to worry about is 4 wks from now, which was March 11th. Date published, to 4 wks would be about April 8th.

This will get worse, and now is the time to "LEARN" how to do the social distancing, isolation, and quarantine protocols.

I can understand your strong desire to want to help out your family, do what you can to help others during the pandemic. However, the best thing you can do is seriously consider the consequences of failing to follow the recommended protocols of experts.

Let us know how strong you have become in fighting this virus, please, would love to hear of your decision.

With care and concern TN.....
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TN,
Have you been tested for the Covid-19 during your lung infection, or after? How about now?
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TNtechie Mar 2020
Yes I was tested; no virus at all just bacterial.
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In Northeast TN the schools have been out 2-3 weeks. Yes, we closed our schools, universities and colleges _before_ NY or NJ even though we had no known CV.

The dining rooms have been closed nearly 2 weeks. When they were closed there were ZERO CV cases within 100 miles. The 8 cases within a hundred miles that originally developed in our rural area were young people who traveled out of state to the beaches and NYC despite local advisories to delay all non-essential travel.

My nephew has been working in his fields, sheds and garages located on the same property where his house and my house are located. A typical day is taking the tarp off a stack of antique lumber, selecting which logs or flooring materials meet the current project needs, using a bobcat to move the lumber to the garage, cleaning it with a pressure washer, loading it onto a 25 ft trailer, band and tarp it. Next day drive the lumbar to the job site which is more than half a mile from the nearest unoccupied structure and 12 miles from the nearest public road, unload it, cut it to size with appropriate saws in the basement or garage area of the house under construction, carry it to the room needed and install it. His entire construction crew at this point is 4 men since he has laid off others who didn't want to commit to safe CV practices. Everyone on that crew is a family man who is going to work and back home. The only stops are at mountain convenience stores to purchase fuel, bottled water, soda, chips, etc. or a drive thru window for food. They wear gloves and maintain more than 6 ft of distance most of the time as part of the normal construction process. The county they live as well as the county they work in and the county the convenience store is in are all still ZERO covid-19 known cases. Is it zero risk? Of course not, but it is a low risk of infection. Much lower than the parents you suggest swap shifts to care for their children. What happens when they both need to work a 16 hours shift?

The kids that have all been here on the property for 2 weeks have been distancing or isolating - it doesn't matter that we walk between houses because we have _all_ been here _all_ the time. Guidelines are people isolate at _home_, not make any unnecessary trips, not participate in any public gathering of more than 10 people and practice good personal hygiene. As soon as the first case occurred 60 miles from us, we have been taking shoes off in the garage or carport, changing clothes and taking a shower when returning to the property. My nephew has been doing this for years just because construction is a dirty business and he didn't want to bring any of that dirt into his home.

There is no way to make yourself or your family completely safe unless you have everything you need available at home right now. Very few people were or are prepared to live only from their available resources. If you are going to the grocery store or the pharmacy, you are accepting a low risk of infection.

Douglas MacArthur believed he could not be killed as long as God had a purpose for him on this earth and when he had completed the tasks God had for him, nothing could keep him alive. I'm not suggesting anyone stand tall while snipers or zero pilots take their best shot or disregard personal hygiene or protection equipment. I am suggesting we need to do our best to reduce our risks and accept it still might not be enough. If our time is up, then death will find us one way or another. I will take due care, but I will not completely stop living or contributing to my family and my community as long as I am able.

So I am going to step up and accept the low but real risk to my own life by welcoming 3 of our family's kids into my home. There will be 12 of us living in the family compound starting tomorrow and we will still be living in compliance with the CDC's stay home directives.

I might be too busy or too tired to post much for a week or two... but I will be back!
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Linzy6 Mar 2020
Thank you for sharing the rationale for your decision. I hope everything goes smoothly in the coming weeks.

My brother lives with his son and dil, and has become his grade school-aged grandkids' daytime carer. The kids seem to be doing well with their days structured -- school work, dog-walking, chores, reading time, exercise, etc. 

Let us know how things work out for you.
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Sorry, no, because of your lung condition. This is uncertain, and once started cannot be undone. You cannot now afford yourself this underlying condition. So very sorry. These are such awful trying times. Right now you owe to you Mom to be there for her, and to yourself to recover. Breaks my heart, but no. This would be very difficult on these kids, not an easy thing; kids can't understand really what is going on and the importance of protection, of hunkering down. They should be closer to home and with family even if this takes a health care worker off line. In all truth, health care workers are TERRIBLY at risk, and one family member SHOULD be home for these kids in short run, and more terrifyingly, in the long term.
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Thanks for letting us know TN.
Will look forward to hearing from you again.
It is nice to be needed, isn't it?

You have the heart of the many people in your family who are dedicated health care workers. And a caregiver's heart. There will be no stopping you as you continue to give of yourself from the heart.

Bless you on this journey....
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I appreciate everyone who responded. Hearing your thoughts & reasonings helps me better understand my own thoughts & fears even when only in counterpoint. Thank you.
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May you stay well and thoroughly enjoy this unique and memorable time with your family!
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TN, despite those precautionary measures there are currently 60 confirmed cases in the Knoxville area alone.

I know it's not heroic, but to me it is very simple. Nobody should be in your house who does not already live there. I understand the parents' professional feelings, but one of them should suspend his or her career (her, on the face of it) for three months* and take care of the kids at home. This is a gamble you do not need to take, which you are taking because of their choices.

The children, especially the little one, are highly unlikely to become ill and do not need to be quarantined away from their own home for their protection. This is a childcare services issue, it is not a child protection issue, and childcare services should not be provided by - forgive me - a somewhat older lady with health issues who lives with a senior lady with very demanding health care needs of her own.

I can't bring myself to see this as the right decision, I'm sorry.

* less, should they catch the virus and recover. They will then be completely free to return to work.
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TNtechie Mar 2020
CM, while maybe not statistically significant, infants and children without underlying conditions are becoming infected and dying in America. In TN, 9 of the 16 children under 10 have required hospitalization and 3 are on vents. While 16 out of 1,373 total cases is only 1.16%, the hospitalization rate is higher than the old folks. 5 of the 6 TN deaths so far have been in the 60+ crowd; however, higher than expected numbers of the 20-49 group have required hospitalization. Most of the infected are coming from Memphis and Nashville and I suspect drunken behavior and vaping are eventually going to be found to have had an impact on these numbers, right now the numbers in these cities are alarming.

The risk is when the kids enter my home, afterwards their presence while we all stay here does not increase my risk of being infected. They have been isolating in their home for 15 days and will have been tested before they arrive. There is a risk to my health but it is very small, certainly only a fraction of the risk their parents will be returning to on Monday.
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TN, from your post, I think you had already mainly decided to take up this call of duty for your family. They are truly blessed to have you.

Now to minimise all the risks you can. Washing hands, regular disinfecting benches & taps, outside shoes stay outside, keep your home a safe bubble.

I'd have a special chat with each child of aabout the situation, what they understand about it & what responsibilities they will have. What are their skills? Maybe the 4yr will enjoy colouring or some other craft/activity with your Mum? Maybe the 10yr old likes to cook? The 13yr old could co-ordinate the chores list etc?

I know the world was very different when my Mum was born but her 13 yr old sister would wheel her in the pram to the health centre to be weighed in her own. The younger brothers would post letters or run errands by bike.

Good health to you all through this time.
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You are a better person than I am. Good Luck. I hope this doesn't last long.
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The key thing to controlling this pandemic is compliance with orders to stay in place, to socially distance.

From the Smithsonian - “We literally have to have absolute compliance,” Alessa says. “Without that, this is our new normal.”

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/what-we-know-so-far-about-how-covid-19-pandemic-could-end-180974533/?utm_source=smithsoniandaily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20200330-daily-responsive&spMailingID=42147152&spUserID=ODg0NzU5NTE3MDYxS0&spJobID=1722980826&spReportId=MTcyMjk4MDgyNgS2

We all have horror stories. My youngest son was assaulted at age 23 and died a few days later. We were required to make to decision to pull the plug. I watched his heart stop beating. But I have not let any fear that arose from that govern my decisions about my children or anything else.

I have wondered why you ask as you appear to have made up your mind to go ahead with this. Do you still have doubts or are you wanting endorsement, should, God forbid, anything bad happens, so that you feel better as you have others on your side. I don't mean to be harsh, I really wonder. But I don't need an answer. After all the decision lays with you. Regardless of that, I do wish you and all your family the best outcome. I wish it for all of us.
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TNtechie Mar 2020
I was actually looking for endorsement (as you call it) to not take the kids even though I normally would. My fatigue from my own health problems was driving my reluctance.

We did comply with all the social distancing and stay in place guidelines. In fact we exceeded them. Child care is a fact of life for essential workers. These kids are not going back and forth for child care. They made a one time move after a 15 day self-isolation period and a negative covid-19 test to "stay in place" for the next several weeks or months.
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Update after first day: things went much better than I anticipated. The oldest (13 year old daughter) is "managing" her siblings, getting her 4 year old sister ready for and putting her to bed and encouraging her 10 year old younger brother to straighten his room and help with some housework. Oldest daughter really wanted to come here and told her mother she would do _all_ the housework to get to stay here (I'm going to let them help but the kids are not doing all the housework). She came with her own agenda too: yarn and an afghan pattern she wants me to teach her how to make and a list of things she wants to learn how to cook. We made turkey chow mien and apple dump cake yesterday. Because I have been ill, the grandmother is dropping off a restaurant supper every night this week. The older kids did their school work yesterday morning without much help and then the younger boy vacuumed the floors while his big sister dusted, so they already caught up most of my illness delayed housework. After lunch, they rode bikes and played outdoors most of the afternoon, although the boy did spend some time exploring my gaming systems. After supper, we watched movies from Disney+. The 4 and 5 year old pair spent most of the day swinging and sliding on the outdoor playset and fell asleep during a movie. Mom stayed in her room till mid-morning, then came into the common room until late afternoon, retreating back to her room for a nap before supper. As I expected, Mom enjoys having the kids around and keeping track of their activities; I have an Echo Show setup in the common room so Mom can see what's going on in there even when she's in her room. I put it in so Mom could see no one had entered the house when she heard TV voices but it worked well last night when she was tired but wanted to share the movie experience too. I ended the day very tired but not the totally exhausted state I was afraid of.

My county now has 1 confirmed case but we definitely have community spread starting in some adjacent counties so beginning April 1 all non-essential businesses are closing and a stay at home order is in place. Fortunately or maybe unfortunately, almost everyone in the family works essential jobs. It's good to know you will have a paycheck but we're still nervous about the increased exposure risk.

BTW: Grandmother leaves the meals in their take out bags on the front porch. I lift the containers out of the bags, wipe them down, and place them on a tray to bring inside the house. The bags go into the outdoor trash. Similar process for groceries and other supplies.
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Well Miss 13 sounds like a practical young lady, ready to step up into her new responsibilities. Miss 4 will have fun & keep things light. Master 10 may be a challenge & rebel against his sister (only normal 😆). I'm glad they all have bikes & access to outdoors. Imagine being in a city apartment? I hate to sound sexist, but my son took to the bigger physical jobs of bins out, yard work, vacuming. He was very interested in what is a *man job* at about that age. My DH & I taught him that another *man job* is grocery shopping & they see a lot of men & their kids Sat mornings - a win there he he 😁.

I think you will all make some wonderful memories for the future.
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Glad it’s going well! They really do sound like good kids, hope everyone continues to enjoy the experience. I love that the oldest wants to learn from you!
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Sounds like you're off to a good start! Wonderful that you have a "mother's helper" in the oldest and that your mom is enjoying having the kids around.  I believe it will be a positive experience for all. 

Glad you know about safe handling of takeout containers.  DH and I just recently saw a youtube video showing that and how to clean groceries -- lots of safety measures to take these days!  Stay well and enjoy those young'uns!
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So my nephew allowed his #2 son to visit the non-custodial mother overnight in her home. I asked my nephew if he thought his ex was likely or unlikely to having been observing social distancing? Has she changed from the histrionic personality who needs to be the life of the party? Does he believe she voluntarily left the bars before the governor closed them? Or that she and her long time friend and next door neighbor (also co-defendant in a couple of drug party busts, the last one just over a year ago) didn't just move the party to someone's house?

I am now the overreacting old foggie! He says because there's only 3 cases in our county the risk "can't be much" _but_ 2 of those cases are community spread - the health department has no idea how they became infected. As I understand the curve those 2 are the tip of an iceberg and the people they infected before they were symptomatic are 7-14 days out. I reminded him the 15 year old #1 son he is so proud of is also an asthmatic and it's just possible this gamble could cost his very life. Nephew with his high blood pressure and his wife with her light smoking are not completely safe either.

I have barred the dyslectic child or anyone living with him from entering my home for 21 days. I purchased another Echo show we can use for homework and pleasure reading. Niece in law has sent her 5 year old (#3 son) to stay in my home because she doesn't want to risk his exposure (and he really loves playing with the 4 year old already here). She says it will be hard not to be able to hug him for a while but at least she can watch him play in the yard every day.

I have caused dissension in their marriage, almost the last thing I would ever want to do. I recommended my nephew take the RV out of winter storage and set it up for #2 son to stay in for those 3 weeks. He would probably love having "a place of his own" and #3 son would be at home instead of his absence continuing to fuel his mother's displeasure.

Although generally a reasonable person, I get the idea my nephew would rather pound sand than just admit he made a snap decision at the end of a long day and didn't really consider the altered circumstances. He seems intent on doubling down and exposing the rest of his family too. That worries me on more than a personal level. If this intelligent, successful and educated small business owner in his 40s doesn't appreciate the danger by now, what's the chance we will ever get through to the younger crowd, some still having group socials in city streets and parks? Did anyone see the arm in arm photo of the Cowboys receivers with QB Dak and Dez Bryant?

And here I thought my biggest challenges for a while would be coming up with things to keep the kids busy!
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Tothill Apr 2020
TN,

There have been several stories in the news about shared custody and Covid 19. We have almost 1200 positive tests, and 35 deaths,

In my family I care for my infant grandson 2-3 nights a week. I drive 40 minutes to pick him up and drive him home with no stops along the way. It is a matter of weighing each situation. The Social Workers know that my grandson's parents need a regular break. We have two options, I look after the baby part time or he goes into full time foster care. This is the better option.

Currently the word is that shared custody agreements stand unless one household has symptoms of Covid. We all know that it can spread before symptoms, but this is the way it is being dealt with here in BC.

In your family's case, i understand your concern, the boy may have brought the virus back to your family compound and is putting the whole family at risk. As social isolation is likely to continue for weeks if not months, what other options are available for him to see his mother?

Why do you feel 21 days are needed? I am wondering if you have some information that I have not seen. Here we are being told to quarantine for 14 days if there is potential exposure. If a person is sick they have to quarantine for 3 additional days after they feel well.
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In my County its now 25 cases and 2 deaths. No testing yet. I pray that it doesn't get worse. Our local grocery store is trying to follow the 6 ft thing and one cart one person. No families coming in and browsing. Get in, get what you need, and get out.
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Children and older adults are not a good mix right now. Your mother is high risk for COVID complications and you at increased risk yourself with recent lung issues. You should not have the kids even visit you now let alone stay with you. I don't know the answer for their situation, but it should not be you.
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TNtechie Apr 2020
Kids are no more likely to get infected while staying home than old folks.
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Don't be concerned about causing dissension in nephew's marriage (I assume because you called attention to the fact the son could now be infected and infecting?)  There are weeks/months ahead that couples will be making decisions that can affect their own and others' safety -- best to have everyone's thoughts out in the open. It seems inevitable that many won't totally agree with their spouses.

My DH is willing to take more risk of public exposure than I am. It's not a huge amount, but more than I'm comfortable with for someone over 70. Last night I asked him not to renew his (non-essential) employment contract later this month -- for the sake of both of us. We have other income but he loves his job.  Whatever he decides, I'm afraid one of us will be dealing with some degree of resentment.
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Countrymouse Apr 2020
Linzy, I'd expect him to be able to defer the decision to renew - maybe he'll be less prickly about agreeing to that?
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I didn't ask when the decision had to be made... just assumed it would be quite soon in order to identify and hire someone else, should DH decline. I did request he give some thought to my concerns before making a final decision. (And that ended the conversation.)

I'll know more when he returns from work this evening.
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Linzy6 Apr 2020
Countrymouse, at my request DH has opted not to renew his contract. I hope in the long run he'll be able to view this as being the logical decision for us.
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TN are you taking proper precautions with grand nephew's laundry?
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TNtechie Apr 2020
I think so, we've been discussing it. We have an older washer/dryer set in an exterior garage where we wash stuff we don't want in the house (like cleanup cloths from job sites) and have decided to use that set so his laundry doesn't even mix with the rest of the family. We're running some old sheets and towels through a couple of cycles today just to make sure the set is clean enough for clothes again. There's a small water heater that operates off a timer with the temperature set at 160 degrees, hot enough to kill bacteria and viruses.

Our current plan is for grand-nephew to dump the RV's laundry hamper into a laundry basket setting near the patio table. We will put the clothes through a hot wash and hang it out on a circular clothes line we use with the RV. Rain may force the use of the dryer, but we would like to use the disinfectant properties of sun drying if possible. Spray the laundry basket down with our Lysol mix and let it dry in the sun. Fold the laundry and place into basket for grand-nephew to take into the RV. Disinfect the basket again and store until the next laundry day.
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I would have him wipe the drum to the washer down with a Clorox wipe everytime he is done with a load. Keep the lid up when he is done.

So sorry you need to do this. Some people just don't see the problem. Your nephews wife (ex?) Just needs to understand that seeing her kids is not an option right now. So does the nephew.
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TNtechie Apr 2020
We decided we are going to do the laundry instead of having grand-nephew do his own because we don't want to have another area to disinfect. My niece-in-law or I can carry the basket through the room and load the washer without touching anything else on the way. After we load it and set it to run, we can take the basket outside and spray it down with Lysol, then return to wash our hands (and the Lysol bottle) and spray down the washer and sink faucets.

I don't think my nephew is likely to repeat his mistake with his ex; his current wife and mother of his 5 year old is much too likely to continue expressing her displeasure over every little thing she has to do"extra" to maintain this little isolation cell for the next 3 weeks.
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An update: Things have worked out well so far.

No one in our family has gotten CV yet and the infections continue to be low in Northeast TN even as testing numbers climb. We had a spike a couple of counties over a couple of weeks back when 39 people working on a large farm tested positive during the strawberry harvest but only 4 contacts of those 39 were also infected. Across TN, infections are about 5% of those tested, hospitalizations about 8% of confirmed infections, and death rates 1.6% of confirmed infections, although deaths under 20 are about equal with those 70+. Many of those kids (about 80%) had serious pre-conditions (cancer, heart defects, diabetes) but many did not.

Our community is continuing to reopen using social distancing guidelines. Although Mom and I continue to remain mostly at home (except for her adult day care with restarted 2 weeks ago, she's now tested weekly), the kids and other family members are dining out, attending football conditioning drills (9 boys and 1 coach) and even attending a skating session. Skating sessions are shorter than pre-CV to allow more cleaning and ventilation time between sessions, the rink takes everyone's temperature and limits the number of kids in the building at any one time, installed plastic sheets between booths in the snack area and has sanitizer deployed everywhere. It's my biggest concern but with 22' ceilings I think it's still a reasonable risk as long as infection rates here remain in the single digits.

Most days the kids are playing in the yard and sometimes with other neighborhood kids who are remaining in the area too. I've set things up on the porch so the kids can get to drinks and snacks without entering my home. We even built a "summer" outdoor bath so visitors do not need enter our homes and setup a video game room in the garage. My nephew purchased a boat and is taking the kids to the lake 1-2 days a week weather permitting, part of our vacation at home plan for this summer.

My nephew half-heartily complains I have "corrupted" his sons since he started to get back into the truck last week after refueling without using hand sanitizer and his oldest son called him on it. The son told his father he didn't want to miss football because Dad was careless.

The extended family kids will stay here at least until school starts and maybe even afterwards depending on the infection rate then and social distancing plans the schools will use. Their parents (subject to weekly testing because of their health care jobs) visit on their days off, usually hanging around here most of the time but also visiting relatively "safe" reopened venues.

Right now the thinking is we will probably be sending the older children (age 11+) to school when it starts in the fall but the parents are still considering whether to home school or maybe use one of the church based pre-school/kindergartens for the 4 and 5 year olds. We question whether the younger children are capable of protecting themselves with proper hygiene and social distancing in a group situation that includes hundreds of older children with buses, hallways, and bus loading waiting areas in gyms. Currently even if we avoid the buses, the kids still share a large waiting area before being sent to the classrooms. The church based programs allow the kids to go straight to the classroom and many are offering meals in the classroom too; platters of food are delivered then the teacher/helper makes a plate for each child and delivers it to his/her seat. If the 4 year old ends up in pre-k here, then her older siblings will stay here too. She has done very well being separated from her parents but that's probably because her older siblings came with her and she enjoys having playmates. After staying with me several months she might do okay even without the daily support of her siblings. That decision is in the future when we have more information about not only CV but the school plans.
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