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So we've been struggling to keep 91 MIL (dementia) at home but that is coming to an end. SIL has agreed to take in MIL, but since she will lose income due to her house being a BNB, she wants her SS income. We were under the impression that she would need a caregiver agreement and she would need to claim that on her taxes in case MIL needs long term care someday and runs out of money (won't take long) she will need to apply for Medicaid and they will look back on her finances for the last 5 years. We wanted to set up another appointment with our lawyer who helped with POAs. SIL doesn't want to meet lawyer, SIL says she can spend the money freely on her mother with no questions asked of her by the government. I don't think that is true. She also wants exclusive POAs (she is secondary currently, wants husband off) and access to the checking account. We were thinking we would retain the current POA and after drafting a care agreement, disburse whatever funds are specified to SIL directly. I smell a rat. She has had very little with her care the last couple of years that we have been doing everything, and calls her for 5 minutes maybe once a week, she visits once every 2 or 3 months for an hour tops. She lives about 1.5 hours away and that is going to be difficult for us as well as I believe MIL has become dependent on our familiar faces, we will miss her terribly but I suppose that is beside the point. What do you all think about SIL's intentions and plans for MIL's income?

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No, no and no. If SIL wants all the SS money - you need a caregiver contract and an atty can help set that up. Will advise how to file tax forms etc. In Texas you have to explain all monies paid out of a bank acct in excess of $200. Failure to use money appropriately WILL create penalties if she needs to apply for medicaid bed later on when her own money runs out.

The basic rule of government assistance (like Medicaid) is if you don't want the government to nose into your finances, don't ask for their help. They do have the right to look at how the assets were spent and they WILL ask. Should you allow SIL to do as she pleases now, one of you is going to end up trying to pay for the nursing home until penalty completed or the patient is going to need a place to live when the level of care becomes much harder than it is now.

Sounds sketchy to me on one hand, but on the other - have you complained about needing her help and now she has stepped up to the plate to oblige? If she takes mom to the BnB, mom's money can be paid directly to caregivers to help out when guests are present. No loss of income for the business and she would have receipts to show mom's medical needs paid for. Caregivers w/an agency not a big paperwork problem, but private care will definitely need employer/employee type contract, especially for the 5 years prior to needing Medicaid - meaning payroll gets reported to irs appropriately.
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I would place her. If she has money, a nice AL. If not then Medicaid and her SS goes towards her care.

I agree what SIL is suggesting sounds fishy. First thing I thought was she will take over and you will be cut off.
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Excellent advice, my2cents! Either you have "been there, done that," or you're a professional Medicaid planner! My brother and SiL have been taking care of Mom in their house since 2018, but recently my SiL had to start looking after her own mother, leaving my brother with 24-hr care of Mom (I live 300 miles away, and am looking after my husband). Brother "thought" he understood what was/was not allowed under Medicaid's 5-yr look-back period, but he was wrong. An informal loan agreement; receipts for expenditures not fully documented; other mistakes.....and now when he needs Medicaid he learns that Mom will have a 14-month penalty period. He deeply regrets not consulting a Medicaid Planner to help him structure the transactions in accordance with Medicaid's strict requirements.

So, Bluebell, don't give in to your SiL's demands!
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bluebell19 Aug 2021
I am so sorry about your mother's penalty period. But I do appreciate you sharing your 'cautionary tale', hopefully you can help others like us avoid this in the future. I hope things work out and your mom gets the care she needs.
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I think your MIL would happiest in a
good AL or care home !!!
this is exactly situation we would not want for ourselves ..!!! siblings fighting over $$, POA ‘s, and whose responsible for care.
we wouldn’t want feel like a huge burden. Hands off her money … use it all for her care … sell her house whatever to make her comfortable and independent! She’ll enjoy being cared for , help when she needs it, activities good meals and lots of people around !!
much better than being isolated in someone’s house with resentful bickering kids around…. And don’t expect any $$ left over !!!
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bluebell19 Aug 2021
Exactly my thoughts! And I think DH is heading this way as well!
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I work for a Certified Elder Law Attorney and what you suspect is true, you need to meet with an ELDER law attorney and draw up a Caregiver's Contract. If you don't have a caregiver's contract, you won't be able to count all the payments toward Medicaid; it would be labeled a "Transfer of Assets," and she would be penalized for that! Once done anything you pay, your SIL will count toward the spendown for Medicaid when she's ready.

Find an elder law attorney who does a free consultation for new clients, the certified elder law attorney I work for does this. They can go into much more detail about why you must have a caregiver contract.

Also, talk to the elder law attorney about why you should have a secondary agent on the POA for MIL safe. You have a secondary for the protection of your MIL.
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The fact the SIL wants control of everything and has had very little input to date is concerning, at the least. Insist on the meeting with the lawyer, since a caregiver contract appears to be in order. It also might be wise to have mom's groceries, h mom's supplies and mom's medications delivered to the home - you will control those expenses.

Since you are seeing red flags now, please consider allowing SIL to take mom in on a trial basis - maybe 2 weeks. Visit frequently to see how mom is doing. If you have any qualms, please bring her back home.

Please consider alternative options. You might also consider placing your mom into an adult day program - weekdays during usual business hours in a nursing home of personal care home. You might also be able to secure a home health aide for a shift or 2 - at least 4 hours per shift - so you have time off on the weekends. If mom has reached the point of keeping everybody up at night (sorry, it happens), then she might be best served in a residential facility that will take her social security, Medicare, and/or Medicaid as payment.
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Trust your gut.
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Even if your SIL doesn't want to go to a lawyer, you should. And you should see a MEDICAID ATTORNEY, not an estate planning attorney or elder law attorney, but someone who is a bona fide MEDICAID ATTORNEY. That way you are in the know and you understand the circumstances that will play out with respect to finances.
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Save the attorney fees this is a no way Jose deal. Keep hubs poa, place her close to you. B&B is prob losing money, don’t fall for it.
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bluebell19 Aug 2021
I appreciate everyone's responses. It took some time for all of this to sink in with DH (it's hard to get through all that sand), but now his plan is to do what you suggest - just leave it alone and place her close to us - informing her of our decision - and letting her down easy saying we just can't put her out. He actually thinks that she may be throwing this out there knowing we will say no, and she can sit back guilt free knowing that she offered to help. This behavior is certainly in her range, I'm afraid.
Now I just hope DH follows through with some facility tours, his head has been firmly in the sand for a while now.
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Don't take our opinions. Speak to an attorney who is well versed in Medicaid and elder law and get the FACTS before this power struggle drives a chasm between your families. It's important that MIL has all her legal and financial affairs in order before you make any decisions. Always keep MIL's wishes and well being in the forefront. Finally, present all the facts, workarounds, and potential agreements in a non- confrontational manner with the intention of a final agreement that works for everyone.
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