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My father wants all of his adult kids to help him with his bills, business deals, and projects. Lots of projects. Problem is, he insists that we do everything the way he wants. For example, He wants to buy pads to put on the bed for incontinence. He's been talking about buying them for about three months. Today, he was talking with my sister about it on the phone. I found pads on Amazon for $11.85 (25 pads) and told him I can order them for delivery tomorrow. He asked how much per pad. I advised 46cents. He said he has a piece of paper SOMEWHERE about pads he thinks he can buy for 26cents per pad. So, he wouldn't let me order them. If this was the only project, it would be okay but he has probably a hundred projects (not exaggerating) and this is how he treats everything. He literally took 14 years to pick out kitchen countertops. All of us kids spin in circles trying to help him but we NEVER get anything done. We spend months and months trying to get something done but he keeps looking for a better deal. He makes everything complicated. We want to help him but he is impossible. He gets depressed because we won't help him (even though we have tried). When I suggested that the pads are only about $11.00, that we could spend another week discussing them to MAYBE save $3.00... and that we should just go ahead and purchase and cross this off the list, he became angry and said this is the way he's always done things and he's going to continue to do it this way. Meanwhile, he's causing anxiety for me, my siblings, and himself. Trying to help him is like trying to ride a stationary exercise bike to the store. We never get anywhere. My siblings want to come over to visit but every time they say they want to visit, he asks, "What can you do for me/how can you help me?" It would be nice to just visit sometimes. His granddaughter calls him to ask how he's doing and he just says, "When can you come help me?" Any advice?

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"Fine, Dad; we'll just let you go ahead and do it your way because YOU know exactly how you want it done. We'll get out of your way."

"Trying to help him is like trying to ride a stationary exercise bike to the store."--a priceless comment I can add to my collection to use in the future; thanks!
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disgustedtoo May 2021
I loved that comment as well! I was wondering why I never could get to the store.... ;-)
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How do you help him? By not helping him.

He is fixated on getting a bargain... likes the chasing aspect of it. It's a compulsion. It sounds like he always has to be searching for something; it keeps his mind occupied. I'm guessing it's an anxiety issue. Anxious people are always looking for something that will be better than the previous something, if that makes sense. They're never satisfied so the chase never ends. If he's not fixated or worrying about money, then he's alone with his thoughts and reality kicks in. Then the depression hits.

There is no point in going out of your way to do for him. No one should be going out of their way for him! It's all futile. Nothing will make him happy or calmed down long enough to not demand everyone to do his bidding. You could get him the best bargains on Earth and he wouldn't be happy, because he would have nothing to chase anymore. He doesn't understand why other people don't feel the same level of urgency he does.

For now, he wants to call the shots (again, anxiety) and tell you all what to do. He is happy to have all of you do his bidding for him. The money issue is another means of controlling you all.

Next time he asks for something. tell him you can't shop for him or do tasks for him anymore. Frame it as because you never seem to pick the right thing, and you don't want to keep disappointing him. OR, you could go on and buy things like the incontinence pads anyway and give them to him. He'll argue and you can say "Well, you might as well use them since they're here and I can't return them." (That last part may be a lie, but so be it.)

It would help if all the kids and grandkids involved would be a united front on this.

An anti-anxiety med could be a huge help, but I'm guessing he won't hear of that.
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Maybe he wants to be sold. "The pads on Amazon are highly rated and no complaints of them being leaky like others I have researched. They have sold thousands and have thousands of positive reviews. Very popular. A lot of pads are cheaper because they ARE cheaper. You'll end up spending more on laundry detergent and hot water because of cheap pads leaking. These don't."
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MarkDFW May 2021
Thank you Thomas but this isn't about the pads. It's about him thinking he can get them cheaper somewhere else. The real problem is this is how he treats everything. He will drive 100 miles to save $5.00 even though the cost of gas and time is much more than the $5.00 he would save. He has shopped for a rollator walker for two years. And he involves all the kids in his searches.
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If you took dad to a geriatric psychiatrist, this habit of mind might get classified as rumination and anxiety, and yes, there are SSRIs and SSNIs that target JUST this problem.

But in the end, you can only control your own behavior. I would offer two choices (A pad or B pad). Dad says "no"?

Then you don't order them and tell him he will have to take care of it himself.

Step back and stop supporting the charade that he is "independent".

Like many folks here, Dad is one step away from the accident or illness that will get him hospitalized, sent to rehab and then will be unable to come home.

Set your boundaries firmly in place now. It gets worse from here.
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Assisted Living.

Sorry it's all I've got for you!

I feel worn out just reading about your Dad. Probably a sweet guy, but decision making is not his strong suit.

Maybe narrow the choices, A or B for everything. With pictures on paper to see. Set a time frame. Look at these options (I'll leave them here). Let him fuss (you don't have to listen). Next visit I will buy A - unless you specifically ask for B.

My Mother was the Queen of indecisivness! Never trusted her own judgement, always wanted someone else to help with decisions - same stationary bike going round & round. But if someone else made the decision! Whoa! I should have kept looking/found it cheaper/found a better one/what if what if what if...
I need to go lie down now just thinking about it...

Oh I just read Loopy's reply - Anxiety!!! YES! Mother MUCH better now some pills are in the picture.
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This sounds partly like needing boundaries and partly like needing a family agreement to say no.

‘When can you come help me?’ Answer, I can’t, but I’ve got time for a short visit.

‘I’m looking for cheap pads’. Answer, Fine, try Amazon.

‘Help me with this project?’ Answer, Sorry, I’m not getting involved in that.

‘Business deal?’ Answer, I’ve got enough to do earning my own living.

It really does sound like your family are all helpers. He asks, you think you have to help. The more you do, the more he asks. He doesn’t accept, because that would finish it, he couldn’t ask that one any more. It’s not about logic, except for the logic of getting attention.

It’s a game, you’ve been trained into it for years. Now it’s getting worse, and you and your family members can still decide whether or not they want to play. I certainly wouldn’t go there!
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Dear Disgusted, I don’t want to sound negative, but your idea of a long list, co-ordinated between several family members, sounds to me like a lot of trouble for nothing.

Any father who took 14 years to pick out kitchen counter tops, has long term habits that are not going to be countered by any form of logic, even a long list. And he has been training his family for at least those 14 years. They are the only ones who stand a chance of changing. You are right - they need to do it so save their own sanity!
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He's probably always been thrifty. Or even what others call cheap. Hard habit to break. For some of the things he needs, think old school. We live in a disposable society now and people tend to buy more one-time use items. For the bed pads he wants, tell him you figured out the absolute cheapest way to go. Waterproof bed pads. Get him about 2 weeks worth as initial investment and he can wash once or twice a week. Even cheaper - a plastic shower curtain cut into about 4 squares and place a bath towel on top.

If he had a piece of paper 'somewhere' that he had a price for the pads, does that mean he looks on internet for things he wants? Or sees them in magazines, newspaper ads, or what? Hand him a large envelope and tell him when he finds something cheap on sale that he wants, put the info in the envelope and you'll order weekly. (Or pin to bulletin board, magnet on frig, etc)

As for chores assigned to everyone - same thing as above, tell him to make a list of things he wants done and one of you will handle it when you have time. I think many of the chores elderly put on others is mainly to keep the person in the home longer when they come over. If you just want to visit and not do a chore on a particular day - have a leg ache, backache, etc and tell him you're just going to sit and visit. Everyone could have an ache or pain. Might be good for him to see those around him 'needing a little help' too!
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If your Dad is doing all the work then he gets to call the shots....but as soon as he needs someone else's help he needs to be considerate of them.

He does this because you all let him do it. If he can't decide on pads then tell him " ok Dad, figure out what you want and I will get it. But I am not going to be involved in you comparing 20 different items. Call me when you have made a final decision.".

My father would complain to my daughter that I never visited. She said I was there all the time. He agreed but said I was always doing stuff when there. Of course, I was because he put me to work the moment I got there. And if I worked it was no longer considered a visit.

Stop playing the game with him. My father loved to fuss over something. I refuse to fuss....I make a decision and move on. That drove him crazy. He wanted me to fuss over it with him. I don't have that kind of spare time to waste.
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MarkDFW May 2021
You are exactly right! My dad likes everybody to fuss over him. Thank you!
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Your dad has control issues that border into mental health problems. Please see if you can get him evaluated and treated by a geriatric psychiatrist.

In the meantime, it might help for everybody in the family to get on the same sheet of music. Read any of the books by Townsend and Cloud about "boundaries", or dealing with problem behaviors. You may have to get the family together to discuss this without dad being present. Outline a plan of what you all agree to do when he starts to obsess about saving pennies or obsess about getting help. Ideas that come to mind:
1 - Set dates for completion of "projects." Let dad do all the research he wants but by the "due date" the project must be completed whether he saves more money or not.
2 - Put days and times on calendar when each person will go to his home to "help" and only "help" during those times.
3 - Remind dad that you are "visiting" and "not working on projects" on social days. Bring lots of games, movies, activities to keep his mind off of "projects."
4 - His obsessions are probably attempts to control a world that seems frustrating and a little scary. He might benefit from a mild anti-anxiety medication.
5 - It might be time for dad to not live by himself any longer. He may need another person to make sure he eats regularly, takes medication, bathes, gets enough sleep...
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