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I moved here in June after 26 years of living alone, and came to a borderline hoarders apartment, long story short she is all over me 24/7, does shopping, meals, laundry, and thinks I'm still a child. She has tremors and just unloads on me when she does not get her way or when things are not done as she wants (exactly) made clear for me it's this or a shelter even though she's loaded. I speak up, and her blood pressure goes through roof, like mine is all day/night waiting for next thing I do wrong like open windows to cool off 200 degree apartment with pre war non-stop steam, no privacy, space. Woke up with allergies, got dressed to go get breakfast (she's all over me in house about take out food (contamination) can't drink diet coke anymore (she forces ginger ale on me despite sugar, and good luck taking more than a 1/4 cup even seltzer. She thinks I have pnuemonia, got pandemic, despite sneezing all the time in morning. With no eat in at restaurants eat on sidewalks like a bum for 30 minutes of peace, she stays in during storms, or for weeks at a time so gets antsy, is good to me but I'm living life of a 12 year old, she wants me to get apartment, will never go to nursing home or assisted living, put locks on all cabinets, wants to donate her stuff for tax write off to clear clutter and does and her plan is for me to inherit doing this. Meanwhile I have anxiety, panic attacks, high blood pressure without this and feel I moved into jail. She's nice, waits on me hand/foot but acts like I'm back in high school, always reminds of everything I do wrong from day one of arriving where I told her we'll drive each other crazy, and she'll go back to childhood if she can't find current things. I'm not perfect but every day I'm miserable and pray to be out of this nightmare. I have no privacy and when I speak she's calls me fresh mouth and rambles on about her past life, and anything bad that happened, any call with anyone she'll speak for two hours, she'll runs water 24/7 and demand I drink cold water, and has to steralize cap, she'll yell at tv and start interrogating me and I live steralizing hands, outdoors and literally needs to be cleared for departure in the morning, she hates shoe laves so bought strapless, now those are considered slippers, so bought boots. Every day is a nightmare I wake up with knots in my stomach and demands she will be respects and any talk about and her blood pressure is up, sees spots. I love her but we're killing each other but beating her landlord means a lot to her by me getting this apt, I almost want one of us dead and wish it was me. I'm 58 years old, she told me can't go out at night like child, my life controlled 24/7.

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Instead of "fighting her on everything", you could try the rebellious teen tactic....wear your boots out the door, and change them once you are out of sight. Even saying, "Yes, Mom".

A desperate measure and not well received tactic, I am sure, and not the ideal solution. Not everyone can achieve their ideal lifestyle. However, fighting her on everything will just drive her crazy, and you. If you were not stuck in that mindset, you could see that it is making things worse, and you both are miserable. Neither one of you is right, torturing each other.

Start small, so you can make it through the holidays. Stop correcting her, she likely has a broken brain and cannot change. Try cooperation and kindness. Stop criticizing her. She is ill.

Work on yourself, see a counselor to advise you.

See the movie: "What About Bob?" with Richard Dreyfus as the psychiatrist,
who wrote a book called "Baby Steps".
Bill Murray played the patient, an exemplar of neediness, and a compendium of phobias. He ends up helping the egotistical psychiatrist to change, and also helps the family, as he himself improves his outlook.

This will help you feel better.

Check back here if you try any of this. I want to hear if your mother falls over in shock, starts shouting "Who are you and what have you done with my son?".

Merry Christmas William. You remind me of a poster called himself Chris years ago.
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Your post kind of drove me crazy.

In a way, you are so entwined with this mentally ill mother you don't seem to be able to think independently. I'm really, really sorry for that.

You are hanging on b/c in what, 20 years or so you MIGHT inherit a rent controlled, hoarded out apartment in NYC?

This makes no sense to me, at all.

And BTW, taking a walk for 30-45 minutes doesn't mean you are like a homeless person. It means you are taking a walk.

Sounds like you just want to vent, and that's OK, we all do sometimes. It's when great advice is given and you shoot it down---people will stop responding and trying to help you.

You have siblings? Go to THEM for help. You will not live long in a toxic and filthy environment.

If you choose to simply complain, have at it. We do care, we think about things before we post them. You've been given a TON of support and advice, but you shot everything down.

Your MOM isn't the problem--you have bought into all her crazy. You need to get some help to stand up and be a man.

Sorry if I sound mean--I do feel for you.

Being alone with just a few belongings would be ever so preferable to what you are experiencing now. I do wish you calm and a peaceful mind to think this through.
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It's your Mom's house (or apartment) so she can do whatever she wants to. It was your choice to move in with her so either you learn to live with her peacefully (take the other member's suggestions) or move out.

There are plenty of places to help you move out and also help you with food and other necessities.

Your Mom will never change and you need to ACCEPT that or live in chaos. You can NOT change anyone but yourself. You will always be a child to your Mom no matter how old you are. My older brother lived with my Mom until his late 60's after he got divorced. He ignored my Mom (even though she was really nice to him and did a lot for him). She didn't even ask for rent.

If I were in your shoes I would have never moved in with a woman like that in the first place, I would have gone to a shelter. I would rather be in control of my own life then live with someone that would drive me crazy.

I wish you the best,
Jenna
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You will NOT get the rent stabilized apartment in NYC. Your name is not on the lease. The landlord will turn that apartment over faster than a short order cook flipping flapjacks. What your mother wants and what's going to happen when she dies are two very different things.
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wm1234 Dec 2020
Beyond driving me insane it's the #1 thing in her life, getting me this apartment. I never changed my address over 26 years elsewhere, all documentation is here, this landlord is cashing my signed checks, the super sees me daily on camera. I have a papertrail a mile long. I paid my ex landlord in cash since 2000 put cable in his name.
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Move out. I can't think of any other reason besides extreme desperation and approaching homelessness that would have made you move into a situation like you've got.
If you can get out, for God's sake and your own - Get Out!
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Move out!
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Walk a few blocks, every day. As if your life depended upon it. If it is too cold, walk to the trash dumpsters and empty the trash e v e r y d a y . Dress warm, and wear your boots, so your Mother does not need to tell you.

Ask your sibling to help you apply for subsidized housing, supportive housing, senior housing.
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wm1234 Dec 2020
She had to go to Sloan Kettering for her yearly breast exam on Wed, she was gone by 7am but I get furious with her gone living like this so yes I go into the street like a bum to walk for survival for 20-30 minutes twice a day, today I went nowhere and she marched in undected at 9:50 am saying she watched me for five minutes and aced all her test, then started in telling me every detail how she got from door to door and if I went out. I was too tired with her gone, ordered BK delivers threw down trash before she discovered because she goes through my food while eating and hovers over me complaining non-stop. She came back early and I'm disgusted I could not wake up the second she was gone for more freedom now I'm anxious and angry.
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Mhillwt I could not use reply.
I go out 1-2 times a day for 30-45 minutes but weather does not allow me to stay out for long. Before coming I had to e-mail her daily miles long e-mails so she could forget everything later, and good luck if I did not respond by 11am. But I survived that and got Sunday's off but odd call would pop up and she would do her thing, never refused her coming to me but was three hours of hell and she admitted she left my place screaming how bad I was living, the more I did to be a good family member, the more she needed to vent on me about everything. Now I got it 24/7.

I moved here and used her doctor once on my insurance. She found my psychiatrist in 2003 but in 1992 her primary doctor hooked my on xanax which was given away like candy back then before doctors ran from giving it out and wanted to give out new-improved choices, one said no more xanax, take remeron, I almost died after 1/2 a pill and spent three days sleeping so I don't let doctors change my med. Before coming here tried to withdraw, since coming here that ended.
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BurntCaregiver Dec 2020
Hey, wm1234. You do know marijuana is legal in many states, right? Forget the Xanax and the Remeron (that stuff is the worst. Makes a person practically catatonic). Smoke yourself a nice fatty. It will do you wonders and it will make coping with your outrageous mother a whole lot easier. Now, I think on it maybe your mom would do well to burn one as well to help her mellow out a bit. Talk to the doctor and ask. In the meantime, when she starts up with you walk away. Completely ignore her when the instigating over what you eat or wear or anything begins. You live with her, so you know when she's trying to get something going. What she wants is someone she can fight with, control, and abuse. Don't let her have it. Don't be that for her. It is very hard to ignore someone and not let them make you react, but the sense of satisfaction it will bring you makes it worth it.
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You were on your own before, she was on her own before. If she can care for you she can car fore herself.

You need to move, its not working. There are HUD vouchers. HUD subsidized apts. They only charge 30% of your income for rent. Depending on ur disability maybe you can get a p/t job. SS disability allows u to make so much a year. Was 14k but I think that has gone up. Social Services maybe able to help. Office of Aging too. You have been on your own too long. Hard to live with someone who won't give you privacy.
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NeedHelpWithMom Dec 2020
My oldest brother lived in a senior apartment complex.

There is usually a waiting list for them. His was age 50 and up.

It was a percentage of rent.

They even had church service at the apartment for them. Bingo too.

Free care boxes of non perishable food. It was a one bedroom and plenty big enough for him.

They had shuttle buses to the pharmacy and grocery too.
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Loopy, I have to honestly tell both sides or why bother, and I fight my mother very hard on everything I see as wrong which is everything.
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LoopyLoo Dec 2020
Well? If you’re refusing to leave, just get some earplugs, I guess?
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Confused, Who is taking care of whom?

Put a lock on your door, tell her to keep out.

An adult male does not allow his elderly mother to wait on him hand and foot.

Leave the house from 9:00 a.m. to dark.

BTW, the above are only suggestions, not telling you what to do.
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wm1234 Dec 2020
thank you but she takes care of me and she's 79. She waits on me hand and foot of her own choice because before I came here I ordered my food at all hours, had a place ten feet from door and dropped off laundry, and she does not like or want that, it's this way because she wants it this way and is not shy about shoving it down my throat when I'm not telling her don't do anything. Our agreement when I came here was you do your thing and go your way, and I'll do/go mine, she broke that day one and all I say is do what you did before I came here and give me space and privacy. She's bored, and has to discuss everything which means 30 runs into my room on a bad day and 20 on a good day. I pay my share of bills 50/50 she goes on her own for groceries and dinner is a HUGE deal for her like the Waltons family dinner, I fought to take my dinner into my room so I could eat in peace and she still runs in 2-3 times, how to eat, chew, bring dishes out in minutes because she has water running to steralize dishes on her schedule as quickly as possible. Then I need to know about chicken bones, down to being the best apartment tenants in history and to take things down to the apartment basement for disposal when I just want to eat in peace instead of my stomach in knots.

It's 20 degrees out and she does weather updates like it's life and death, I can't go out 12 hours a day in a pandemic with nothing opened. I went to the doctor in september, had to go fill his paper RX, stayed for it to be filled, got flu shot, then got a haircut, was gone a good three plus hours, I came back she was out of her head, where were you, called doctor. In summer she thought I was running away almost daily in shorts and a fanny pack.
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Your mother is yelling at you, doing her level best to control everything you do, including being allowed to open and close windows. Would it be worse if you simply did the sensible things? Take the tape off the windows, put the Jesus pictures and photos in one neat pile, turn off the running tap, fit a bolt on your bedroom door? Act like you are a 58 year old man, not a child of 12? You aren’t obliged to do what you are told. Change the rules!
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wm1234 Dec 2020
She just walked in my room, told me wear boots tomorrow, and when I said I may wear my sneakers because boots are new and bruised my heel said I can't believe how stupid I am (sent her images of cleared street crossings with no snow ) and said my sneakers I bought because she hates laces are slippers and will be filled with water and it will ruin her rugs, when I told her I step out at door and always leave shoes there (she points them toward in or out daily and complains I don't pull out backs which sag) got annoyed and stormed off. I fight her on everything and she complained why don't I just do what she says. There is no tape on the windows now I won that fight to open the windows when I got here but now that it's cold and the pre WWII steam comes out at max heat and I open the windows, she goes bananas because room gets too cold at night when I'm sleeping for 11-12 hours due to exhaustion from stress or if windows are closed I'm soaked from sweat and dizzy going out of a steam bath into her wind chill reports with it implied don't go out, it's freezing as she'll follow me to elevator watching my every move to sound shoes make to if my pants are dragging or I'm leaning on contaminated walls or doors. Even suggesting she move things or get rid of them when I got here she would go berserk, she saving things for salvation army tax write-off donations and takes three copies of everything so we have paper piled mile high. And now she demanded I watch the news so I learn as depressing story after depressing story or christmas stories run which makes her happy as she lives on news or hallmark channel and I sit home disabled and single with more to be miserable about.
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wm1234, she is not going to die without you. You only just moved in with her back in June, so if she were really truly not able to live without you, she would have "died" by now. Sounds like she is doing just fine on her own if she can haul groceries home. Truth is, she is just being melodramatic in manipulating you because she likes the power and attention she is getting from you. That is why you feel "like a child", because you handed her that power. And you have the choice to take back the power. You matter!

Your choices are to either continue putting up with this rotten behavior from her, or move out. Even if you can't afford an apartment, just rent a room for the time being. The best thing you can do for your health is remove yourself from that toxic environment.
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MargaretMcKen Dec 2020
There is another choice, to go 'grey rock' and just ignore the orders. But it sounds as if OP is not going to change.
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So this "gold mine" your mother claims you are sitting on when she is gone? How old IS she. How long before realistically she is "gone".
How likely do you think that will be that what's left is a "gold mine"? You are 58. I doubt you will live the decades more your Mom likely will in this environment.
You will need to continue now to work toward moving out again. You have a lot of reasons this won't work, but I don't see another answer at all. I think we both know that your Mother is not going to be changing. When I watch Hoarders, what is left after the Hoard and the years of neglect in a home is somewhat short of being a gold mine. Most Hoarder's homes have to be ploughed back into the earth when the hoard is removed.
I am so sorry you made this move. It is making you ill and it could in fact prove deadly if you have mold allergies. Please work now toward moving out. Only you can work on change in your own life; I wish you so much luck going forward, and am so sorry for this difficulty now.
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wm1234 Dec 2020
She's in great health for someone 79, and lives at doctors offices. I'm 57 and will be long gone in a decade, I do out 1-2 times daily for 30-40 minutes sanity break. Not show hoarders here, far too much clutter. Moved out of a basement with walls, clothes turning green. thanks for kind thoughts.
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Loopy my mother would die for me and died 100 deaths over her life for her family and waits on me hand and foot whether I demand she stop or not, she stayed, her husband beat her, girlfriend threatended my mom who had a breakdown in 70's and you know what she did......got a job and supported us and never stopped, she yelled at me I did all this for my family and this is my payoff for doing the right thing? She just turned 79 and hauls groceries from store for me, does laundry while my fat, disabled body complains about what is actually happening and looks disgusted 24/7 because my life fell apart, she does this because I'm here and trapped beyond walking out which would finish her.
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LoopyLoo Dec 2020
Okay, sounds like I need to kindly write a reality check.

Your mother got a job to support herself and others. Great, but this is what millions of people do every day. She is not a 'savior' for doing so. Unless she was a doctor and/or Jesus himself, she has not 'saved' 100x people, 100x times. She overcame huge hardships. Also admirable, but again, millions have done the same.

Your entire post was about how you're so aggravated with her and want to scream. Every day is a struggle, you're stressed out the minute you wake up every morning, and you're about to crack from all the conflict (and I would too if it were me).

When others tell you what you can do-- that this is abusive and to get out-- you change your tune. Now she waits on you hand and foot. She would die for you. She's my savior. She's done great things for people, she's a good person.

Which is it?

The "it would kill her" (did she die the first time you moved out?) and all the "she's a savior!' are your excuses to not leave. Saying "I'm disabled and nowhere to go", when you previously said you could get a small place of your own. Nothing fancy, not many belongings, but still your own place! It's scary to be on your own, yet millions of people are every day, including people with all kinds of disabilities.

Now if you were just venting, that's totally okay! We all need to vent sometimes! It's just that there really isn't any point asking for help when you are countering every suggestion and telling us she's wonderful.
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You say that your mom "is good to me", that's "she's nice." "she's a good person" and that you "love her", and yet she seems to not only be controlling every aspect of your life, but is indirectly killing you along the way, by causing you all this undue stress. Really??? You will easily be the first one to die in this scenario, if you allow it to continue. You can't go on this way. I know you say that you are disabled, but surely you would qualify for some government subsidized apartment, so you can get the hell out of moms place. You were making me crazy and all anxious just reading your posts. I can't begin to imagine actually living it. You deserve SO much better!!! Please move out ASAP.
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wm1234 Dec 2020
How my posts are is how I'm living. Sorry.

I spend day, night looking at apartments, shelters, no section 8 available so I thought go live where lowest rents are. Toledo, Ohio. Studio's are $1500.00 with no rent controls in NY as my mother rightfully says I'm sitting on a gold mine once she's gone in rent stabilized here but this has been my life for six months as of 6/8/20. I did not even get out of the cab before she yelled at the driver about the price of the fare because I needed to go by side streets because I can't go by highway locally.
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It will kill her, and I'll be homeless unless I leave the state and hope my disability is enough for a studio after being homeless in a new state praying for approval and I'll leave wearing clothes on my back, she saved everyone's lives 100x and tries hard. I have no quality of life in the street in a pandemic.

And after she dies I have to clean this place out, she forgets where everything is and keeps records back to 1970's on shelves. She wants me to have her rent stabalized NY apartment at the low price the rent is despite the 10 plus years of hell I will have to endure to survive here which will kill me because I'm 57 and in poor health/disabled but can walk a few blocks.
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LoopyLoo Dec 2020
No. It will not "kill her". That's just a guilt tactic. If she's survived up to this point, you moving out won't kill her.

You're talking like she's a saint, "saved 100x lives", which is doubtful. You can say she's a good person, but she is not good to you. Of course she treats you like you're 12... you're acting like the dependent child who better not upset mommy. Life can be so much better than this. Not easier, maybe, but better.

You've traded one chaos (landlords) for another one.
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It's this or a shelter. Why? What happened in June?
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wm1234 Dec 2020
The 95 year old landlord and wife I was with since 1994 with $520 month rent sold their home I was alone in that was falling apart around me in a basement. They were in assisted living since 2018 so upstairs was vacant with me doing what I could (knowing it was a matter of when I had to move) but wife threw rent in my face too many times and again place was becoming unsafe to where they would blame me, it was not a permanent solution. I told them in Jan was leaving, guy next door wanted house, as of Oct still did not close so did not have to go so fast beyond my mom ordering me to move now, but it was a matter of when, so I came back home and having a nervous breakdown or a stroke as a gobble down xanas and blood pressure meds.
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She is manipulating you. It will not kill her and doubt she’ll disown you, because she needs someone to abuse, aka YOU.

So what if she calls 911 if you leave? She can pitch a fit all she wants and maybe the EMTs will see she’s living in a hoard and call adult services.

You aren’t trapped or stuck. You have a means of escape. Maybe not much to take with you, but it would be much better to have a small place with little possessions than live with that woman! Anxiety on trains is a small price to pay. You can handle this.

Are you unemployed, on disability, or what? Why did you move in with her in the first place?
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wm1234 Dec 2020
I'm disabled, you have to read other posts for circumstances. My mother is a good person but does not stop or quit. She's had a life of hell, and her mother died in a nursing home of abuse, she's able to go shop, but scared of falling in snow as her mother did and lost her home at 88 because of dimensia and a broken hip.
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Part II: She's now in my bedroom going through tubs of canned fruits and vegetables because she has a thousand dishes, glasses in the kitchen cabinets so she has no room in kitchen, she puts them on the floor in here and dates them, she uses 4-5 dishes at best a measuring cup to drink out of despite a display cabinet with one dish and cup, wears same 3-4 outfits but has hundreds of them she will not part with unless for donations off taxes somethings. The floors are loaded with jesus pictures and images of when we were kids, she won't move them or cut down but did clean out things when she donated last year but still a catastrophe. Complains about my television choices, can't go near door without weather report or all bad news she can rely on television. She also comes to my three bedroom windows 10x a day to tell me about people who own houses like they are family, even though she meets them 1 a year at best, now she just burst in the room with more bad news because she feels need to give me all bad news on local tv telecast about how now Covid is so bad in UK with new strain she demands I put on ABC and not watch my movies to hammer how bad things are aka don't leave this apartment as she comes in room 30 times a day with update after undate before 6pm 12 year old dinner where water in sink is on and time limit to eat before she wants dishes back for immediate sterilization. I have never been more miserable, depressed or unhappy in my life and getting anxity, panic attacks and bad neck disc make me disabled and killed my work life, social by 1999-2004. And I moved at age 31 to be close to work, my landlord had to go to assisted living and place was falling apart so I had to come back here.

Anyone who understands pre war steam heat knows it's boiling hot, or nothing, she runs in room after 10pm to close everything because she's freezing all the time or is in shorts and tank top and demands I put on shorts, then she opens my door on Sat at 12am to check heat/cold and demands I go to bed when I'm a 57 year old man. I do get rid of her most nights and close bed room door around 8-9pm because she wakes up at 4-5am and is tired by 8pm so that window of time is usually my freedom from her but you never know when the door will quietly slide open, one night she said she sleep walks and started in on how she did that as a child.

She goes from opening windows too much to demanding them being closed in the bedroom (she lives-sleeps on living room couch even when she lived here alone) gave me the storage room bedroom she did not use before I came here and loaded up and even glued windows shut so when I arrived in June she was upset windows had to be opened, or I did not want old curtains or a jesus mural over bed, and throws it in my face all the time even though no furniture was moved.
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Mhillwt Dec 2020
Hi You are living in a 2 bedroom rent stabilized apt in NYC ie Manhattan? with mom (who is sitting on a fortune)? Can you go for walks during the day and occupy yourself with other things outside the apartment? Why would it kill her if you moved out since you were on your own for 29 yrs? Did you have a good relationship with mom when you were living on your own? Any other family to help? Sounds like this is all excerbated by what seems to be an anxiety/panic disorder(im assuming). Can you speak with your dr about treatment options?
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Move out.
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wm1234 Dec 2020
She told me it would kill her, and she would disown me. My income would afford me a place in low-rent Ohio but would have to travel there with no car, anxiety attacks on trains, and no place to stay and could only take one bag with my meds, id's lap top and some clothes. She would call 911 immediately if I left. I'm willing to try to save my life but scared of money. I sit here, miserable, disgusted and completely stuck.
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