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Such good advice here. I think the odd relationship with his mother, her illness, and his ties to you have driven him a bit crazy. He can't really think rationally. I would take care of yourself at this time. It will refresh you and allow you to be less wound up about his behavior. She will die; you two will be left to recover or improve your former relationship, or not. I can't see him getting the distance or energy to change their relationship at this time. But your can change your relationship with yourself and your emotions. In any relationship the other person has to work out their own issues on their own at times. Give him room, determine what you can manage or not and act on it, see what is left and how to deal with it, when all this is over.
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CindyRella2022 Mar 2022
You are so right, he needs room so he can try to make sense of this situation. It is difficult for him. He gets to see his mother changing, from being who she was to slowly getting weaker, it is hard. I now believe that he fears that she could pass any day. So I have to be careful and acknowledge his feelings too.

To tell you the truth, this situation wouldn't have happened had she accept the home care and help at home. Her refusal to implement it has caused to many arguments. It is so sad. If she did not have the mean to cover help at home, I would have kept it quite but this is so not the case. She is very comfortable financially but she refuses the external help and doesn't care the damage she does to our marriage.

I know one day, things will be different. Thank you for your message, I appreciate it.
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First, you need to remove any guilt she is trying to impose upon you. Your husband should do the same, but it is harder for him and it is up to him.

Second, both of you need to understand that you MIL’s choices are her own. I don’t think you mentioned dementia so, she’s cognizant about her choices. The idea of, “I make choices and the consequences are yours,” has played out. You can try to make her as comfortable as you can — but, without being bullied and guilted into sacrificing your life. You and your husband have the autonomy to make choices. This doesn’t mean your MIL won’t be angry for not getting her way. It also doesn’t mean that she will not try to make choices that are negatively-impactful to you. But, you have to erect a firewall to this, emotionally, financially, and otherwise.

Sadly, when “some” elderly become as such, they are angrily entitled to the lives of others. They may even understand that they don’t care what happens to you other that you’re never retire, in the interest of caring for them. The list goes on. But, you have to erect a firewall, as best you can and you also have to have a firewall between yourself and others, including the authorities, if they make you feel that you are wrong, for not dedicating your every breath to her.
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Beethoven13 Mar 2022
I agree with your post. To the original questioner: Be prepared for medical crises, tears and guilt trips, the silent treatment, bad mouthing you to relatives and neighbors, threatening to cut you out of the inheritance or will. It’s all been done and generally reflects how pathologically selfish the elder is. You can read about elderly narcissist to learn about this personality and how to deal. The mantra that many of us have learned is they do Not change. They did not receive good enough parenting and it is a generational narcissist pattern that continues until someone educates themselves and does the difficult emotional work to set and Hold boundaries. Reading online and YouTube about generational narcissist and elderly narcissist is helpful. Abandonment fear is often the core issue. Setting boundaries triggers that fear. They also fear losing control. Inform her of what you will do, do it, hire out with her money the other things. Drop her at Supercuts while you do grocery shop. Nail place for trim and filing once a month. Podiatrist for the toes every couple months. Don’t give lots of choice. That’s how it’s done. If she refuses to go. Then so be it. Her choice. Hire a yard service to come twice a month so that is taken care of. Come over once a week on weekend and bring dinner to eat with her and visit. Tend to the few financial things and minor stuff then. That’s it. Meals on wheels drops off food Once a day, M-F. Don’t let her bully you or guilt you. And try not to argue. Stay calm. If you argue it can make you feel guilty and then you giving. It’s better for You to keep calm and pleasant. Keep conversation light and superficial. Don’t try to resolve old issues or get her to understand, it’s unlikely to happen.
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However you get her there, at least your MIL has an alternate place she can stay during your vacation.

She does seem to be manipulating your husband for his time and attention. Some mothers do resent a sons wife from the moment the son meets and marries someone.

Some of your MIL's requests may be reasonable. Personal care is too much as are unnecessary errands, repairs professionals could do, etc. your husband needs to draw a line beyond which he does not provide free, on-call help.

Is there any part of MIL care you could participate in so you don't feel so rejected? Maybe you could arrange hairdresser/manicure appts and drive her there. She may say she won't do that b/c she doesn't like you or b/c her son can cut her hair, but she does not have that choice. Her choice is between your taking her to a hairdresser or not having her hair cut. Provide similar choices for other care situations.

Your husband needs to set limits beyond which MIL will have to hire help or do without.
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CindyRella2022 Mar 2022
The way I participate in her care right now is that I take care of all her doctors appointment, I supervise all her medication and their refill. On that note, I have an issue because she orders extra unrelated supplements on Amazon and some of them are contradicted. I also clean her house on a regular and I check on her on the phone all the time when I am not going to see her. I do work intensively and I have to stay focus on my work but I must say that since she moved close to us last year, my results for the past year have been mediocre. You can connect the dots.

I do not want to get involved with her care more than I already do because, the more we do, the more she asks and this is the reason why she keeps refusing external help. I am so drained by all this, I just need to keep myself at a distance for now, so I can regain my energy and peace of mind. Mind you that she has become the reason why my husband and I argue so much lately. Always because of her and her ongoing and excessive requests.

I give you an example: not so long ago, her neighbor had to go to the hospital for the night. She and her husband came back home and their family members took care her them. Now... my mother in law asked my husband to go and get them some food because she said that they must be hungry. So my husband asked her: did they told you that they needed anything? and she replied that she called the neighbors and that they told her that they did not need anything because their family member already took care of them. STILL... she insisted that my husband go and get them some food.

Then it became a "why don't you do what I ask you to do" type of conversation and I must say that on that day, I was proud of my husband because he stood his ground and told her that he was not going to do it. That he is not a valet and that the neighbors did not need anything in the first place. She got mad, hung up the phone, but on that day my husband said that he did not care if she was going to have a bad day and this was may be what she needed in order to understand that her behavior is way beyond excessive.

So yeah... this is the madness we are dealing with from time to time. Thank you so much for your message, I truly appreciate it.
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Your MIL needs some tough love. You and your husband do enough for her and the two of you have to stand up to her. The fact that both of you agreed not to become her caregiver is a positive step.
She owns her own home. It's a house. Not an apartment or an AL community. This means that a live-in caregiver/companion can be moved in without problems.
If she is "uncomfortable" with a hired caregiver painting her nails and doing her hair, ask her if she thinks not getting these things done would be more uncomfortable. Then you and your husband flatly refuse to do them again. If family 600 miles away want her to visit, they can arrange and pay for a flight to get her there and back. You and your husband offer to take her to the airport.
My mother was much of the reason why my first marriage broke up. I was very young and didn't understand things like gaslighting, guilt, and manipulation. I always thought everything was my fault because I was always wrong. I was raised to be the family scapegoat. My mother's narcissism and lifetime of untreated mental illness created it. Your husband could also have also been a victim of his mother's narcissism growing up.
From what you've said here, your MIL is definitely doing it all on purpose.
She has put herself into competition with you for your husband's attention and affection. She is jealous of you and wants to prove that her son will always choose 'mommy' over every other woman. Make this a contest she loses.
Tell your husband straight that either both of you go on your usual vacation for one month or you will leave him. Ask him if his mother being 'uncomfortable' with the idea of hired caregivers painting her nails is worth him losing his marriage over.
I'm pretty sure he'll choose you. Then go on that vacation and do not even call mother the whole time you're away. Communicate indirectly by talking to her caregivers that were hired or to friends and family that might be checking up on her.
The important thing is not to call her. She needs to learn that you and your husband are not going to be at her beck and call 24/7. She also needs to get the message that the day her son married, 'mommy' stops being the number one woman in his life. Good luck.
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CindyRella2022 Mar 2022
I agree with you, she needs tough love but instead, she gets spoiled to the point that her sons often say "whatever you say goes". So it is extremely difficult to feel like she has that type of power and influence over my husband. Since she lives near us, he often forgets to be my husband.

I know it is a difficult time for him too, so I do not dismiss this part. I try to let him spend as much time with her as possible without interfering however, I often feel alone and neglected. If only she would accept home care help, our life would be so much better. I know my husband wouldn't worry this much about her, knowing that she is taking care of.

It is difficult to approach the situation with ultimatum because now, she is ill. Even though she act like nothing is wrong with her, she cannot walk properly, she is in pain constantly, she needs help with the groceries, the bills, the everything you can think of. So I am always trying to find the best solution for her and to make sure that she is comfortable but I also want to protect my marriage. I think her behavior is truly excessive.

I now believe she has mild dementia, several things happened during the last few days that show a change in her brain function. In the light of that, her behavior could be explained by her lack of logic. My mom had dementia too and she made so many unreasonable requests before she was finally diagnosed. So I want to make sure my mother in law is properly diagnosed and when she is, I believe we will have our answers.

Now.... let's pray my husband understand at this point and hire home care for her. She is 100 percent dependent, she is losing mobility and she could end up being in a wheelchair very soon. I am thinking about it from all angles, that's what helps me in the process. I do have compassion for her, but in the same time, we need boundaries and when we help her, we need extra help so all the work doesn't fall on us.

Thank you for your message, I truly appreciate it.
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Your husband is the millennial who grew up in a previous question. He apparently never set boundaries and this is what happens. Since she wants him to do everything, he can hire the caregiver from the agency for the month that you will be gone. Start a few weeks early to work out any kinks. Use moms money to pay for caregiver. Husband needs to grow up. If he won’t, I suggest you go on a months vacation alone. It might help him.
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CindyRella2022 Mar 2022
The other day, I told him that I believe he is a Mama's boy and that it is affecting our marriage. He did not like to hear it and I know that since then, he tries to find way to make me feel special at time. But as soon as his mother calls, he forgets all about it.

I believe that he doesn't know anymore how to be my husband while spending so much time with his mother and helping her for all of her needs. If things get too complicated, I will take a break alone. For me, that break will mean to rest and renew myself.

I appreciate your comment, thank you for your message.
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CindyR I am so sorry you and your husband are going through this. It is draining on both of you (even though he may not realize it). You have some great suggestions and support here.
Sounds like your Hubby is possibly and only child and unusually close to his Mom. Maybe he is from one of the cultures (there are lots of them) where taking care of the elderly at all costs is expected from relatives including those who have married into the family. All that having been said, I do feel that your MIL is congnizant enough to be pulling all the right strings to make him jump through hoops. Counseling might help but I have a feeling he may be so tired that he won't be able to find time to go but I would still suggest it strongly if I were you. Then you need to worry about taking care of you because only your husband can save himself and only he can recognize there is a problem. If you have to take a separation from each other to find your way after counseling, you may need to consider that although I'm sure controlling MIL will try to take advantage of that which is why you do counseling first.

You can, as as been suggested, bring along a "friend" on one of your visits. The "friend" is of course, a paid person because we know, having run off the friendly neighbor, your MIL can be overloading. Pay will give the new "friend" a reason to withstand the overload. The friend can start with you doing some light housekeeping while chatting with both of you. Gradually the friend can start to come alone. Now she is a visiting friend not some "outsider" that MIL doesn't feel comfortable with.

I think you should, if at all possible, not move MIL any closer to you -- and that includes building an ADU in your backyard or moving her in with you. YOU will become caretaker while you husband is at work!!

Wishing you luck and peace at this difficult time. Please keep up updated.
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CindyRella2022 Mar 2022
I am so grateful for all the support and suggestion on the forum, really it is beautiful so find such support during this difficult season. I thought I was alone but now, I know this is no longer the case.

My husband said that he will try this approach with her but then, he tries to delay the implementation. Today for example, she called him early, asking him to wake me up because she just realized that she was out of one of her medications. Mind you that two days ago, I contacted her doctor for him to renew one medication, she could have told me that she needed a refill for this other medication.

I told my husband that the way the refill works is that I submit the request and by the next day, she will have it available and we can go pick it up. So then, she told my husband to go today, to run to the doctor's office to get the prescription right away. He was in panic mode because she was panicking. And the result was no different then if he followed my advice. He couldn't get the medication today because the process needs 24h.

It happened today, today was the day that my husband chose to take me out for lunch, something we have not done for months. And yet, she screwed that up for us. He spent the whole day running after this medication, trying to go out of his way to get it for her. I am so fed up. I wish that she could be in a nursing home at this point because all beautiful moments I could have with my husband, she is stealing them all.

Someone on this forum said that they thought I sounded selfish, I wish them to go through this hell and come back to let us know how it feels. Thank you so much for your message, it is very encouraging to find such support. I appreciate it.
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“It is so interesting because he can go to the extreme and then regret his behavior and ask me to forgive me for the pain he caused.”

Dear Hubby may need a therapist who is objective. It seems he believes he has to choose you or his mom and whatever he decides is wrong so he’s in a guilt laden No win situation. A therapist could set boundaries for him.
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CindyRella2022 Mar 2022
I believe it will help him too but the situation that makes everything harder is that she is old, she has no one around and no one wants to be around her too. She has chronic diseases and she is reaching the last stages so he feels guilty and he also feels like she may not have long to live.


I would behave differently with him if she was younger and healthy but right now, I do understand the situation but I refuse to sacrifice my marriage over her. So this is where the struggle is right now.

Thank you for your message, I appreciate it.
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CindyRella,

You have a hard road ahead of you. My guess is that the dynamics between DH and MIL have been going on for a long, long time so that even when you can get your husband to acknowledge and agree to what makes perfect sense, when he approaches his mother with it she sees that by agreeing she loses control of the relationship by allowing him the freedom to have other commitments in his life. My guess is that it is hard for him to buck her because he is still suffering from the delusion that if he just tries harder, if he just does a little more, if he just anticipates and then meets her every need, she will love and approve of him. It's hard to give up on winning a mother's love without feeling like a failure! And how do you help the child of a narcissist understand that a mother's failure to love her child is a reflection on the mother, not the child? It took me years to work through this myself, but I'm so thankful I did long before my mother came to need my care. I now understand that my own worth stands in my character and integrity, not in my mom's approval, so when I need to step away to take care of my own needs or of my husband or children, I can do what I need to do knowing that she has shelter, food, and clothing, and she has people who will see to her health and wellbeing in my absence. Inevitably, she has a crisis when I take this step and I do have to steel myself to be strong, but having finally learned what the limits of my relationship with her are, I can be more objective about what I hope to accomplish for her. It still is hard at times, but it's worth my own sanity.

I don't know how you get your husband to come to the realization that he will never get what he (perhaps subconsciously) seeks from her, but I hope that you can find a way to continue to support him even as you protect yourself. I think maybe the vacation by yourself is a good idea - at the very least, you get some distance and perspective so that you can be refreshed to return and help him deal with things. A vacation may also serve to put all the weight on him so that he may be forced to realize he just can't do it all. The other suggestion you have gotten that seems especially good is for you to take on some of her care - that way your husband can know that someone HE trusts is caring for his mother but she isn't getting her way to run his life. Even if all you do is take her for a nail appointment, that's one less thing on him, one less grip she has on him.

Finally, it might help your husband to understand that if stands firm on getting outside help, he no longer has to take care of the mundane needs and can focus on quality time with her. It's easy to get so wrapped up in dispensing meds, going to appointments, keeping things clean, and preparing meals that you run out of time to talk to your LO about Life while you still can.

I wish you the very best here. I've been more in your husband's position than yours, but I have seen the anguish my husband suffered during the years when I still sought her approval as he tried to help me see things through clear eyes. It isn't easy but it's worth it!
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Michelle2828 Mar 2022
wow, that's incredible advice. i just wanted to ask, what is the meaning of LO? sorry, but i can't figure that one out.
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Please arrange for couples' counselling for yourself and your husband. He is having difficulties in prioritizing his relationship with you. There are plenty of ways to care for his mother while also nurturing his marriage. He needs to see this with the help of a professional. He also needs your encouragement to be loving to you as well as his mother.

When it comes to caring for others:
you can make sure they are healthy,
you can make sure they are safe,
but you can not make sure they are happy... that it their own responsibility.
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CindyRella2022 Mar 2022
This is so true. However, therapy at this point would be useless because of her declining health, he is in pain and he wouldn't be able to receive what the councilor have to say.

Thank you for your message, I truly appreciate it.
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You mama's-boy husband has to choose between you and his mother. There is no other solution and you're powerless.
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CindyRella2022 Mar 2022
I feel like I do have options however, I am very aware that any choice I make could have a strong impact on my husband. I do love him and want to support him during this season because everything is changing, his mom's health is deteriorating and I know he is in pain. So I have to be very careful not to hurt him more than he is.

I have the power to changes things but I have to wise on how to use it. I also see her mental decline, even if my husband is still in denial, there will come a time where he will have to face it. So i have to give him this space, to be able to accept that his mom is no longer what she used to be.

Thank you for your message, I appreciate it.
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CindyRella2022: Your husband's first priority is his marriage and you. He may require some form of counseling to realize how painful this situation is for you.
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CindyRella2022 Mar 2022
Because of his mom's health, I believe counseling will not be appropriate right now. He is suffering in silence so his mind will not be able to receive the message. However, he sees the damage that it does to our relationship and I found that when I step back, he tends to come closer to me.

I pray that he will start to implement home care soon, this will help all of us so much and give us the break we all are hoping for.

Thank you for your message, I appreciate it.
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Tell hubby you’ll go on vacation without him if he just wants to be with his mother. Then go .

Caregiving for a season could last another 10-15 years.

I’m caregiver for my 94 (95 this week) mother with dementia…but Im not married…but if I wasn’t so involved with my mother..my life would be different..but I’m not hurting or neglecting a husband by my caregiving.

You have to make changes for your health & happiness..if hubby won’t. He seems married to his mother. That’s wrong & it won’t do you any good. I’d be miserable too if I were you. I hope things change for the better…
Hugs 🤗
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BurntCaregiver Mar 2022
Are you hurting and neglecting yourself because of caregiving?
Your time and life also have value, CaregiverL and you should not have to sacrifice all of it to caregive.
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I just read an update where DH said he is not a valet!

👏 Bravo Mister!

It's one thing to care, be kindly & offer to help.

It is quite another to be the on-call-help.

When I found myself there.. I (after quite some time..) I quit.

I had intended to redraw & reduce but I was still pushed & pulled. In the end quitting was clearer.

Family. Staff. Separate.

Think about it.
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CindyRella2022 Mar 2022
I was so proud of him when he took a stand. Finally!

Thank you so much for your message, it is appreciated.
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Cindy, from your most recent update--"Then it became a "why don't you do what I ask you to do" type of conversation".

Because he is no longer her minor child. He's an adult with the ability to say "no, mom, I can't possibly do that".

Find an article on F.O.G.--Fear, Obligation and Guilt--and print it off for him.

https://outofthefog.website/toolbox-1/2015/11/17/fog-fear-obligation-guilt#:~:text=FOG%20%2D%20Fear%2C%20Obligation%20%26%20Guilt%20%2D%20The%20acronym%20FOG%2C,suffers%20from%20a%20personality%20disorder.
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CindyRella2022 Mar 2022
Thank you for this article, I will read and print it and share it with him. Some mothers are very narcissistic, I can see this pattern in his relationship with her. She has always wanted to control him or his life so as a wife, it is very disturbing to witness that.

Now she is older and ill, so there is little room to help him see what is going on, he feels that she could die soon and he is trying his best to make her feel special. I am going to step back for a moment and give him room to process it all. I am happy that he offered to take me on a little vacation. So we are going !

Thank you for your message, I appreciate it.
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Cindy, I just read your latest message. It really doesn’t sound like he will change around mom, so I would suggest some foreword commitment. Like by the first of the year she will have 24/7 aides or facility or solution other than him.

If she stays off dialysis it won’t take that long, and if she goes back on it, she’d prob have to be in an snf.
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She sounds like Marie on Everybody loves Raymond. I think of what Debra (her daughter in law) goes through because of Marie babying Raymond and interfering in their marriage as she puts Debra down always and tries to competes with her because she’s jealous of her relationship with Raymond.

Even though it’s suppose to be a comedy I’ve never liked that show because it shows Marie as being manipulative and I’ve known of too many real life situations like that with so many toxic in laws situations with mother in laws fighting for their place in their grown sons lives.

Granted your mother in law is getting older and does need support, one of the things I did hear you say is that she constantly has your husband doing so much for her even personal care and that he is suffering from burnout. You also said that she was considering additional caregivers. This can actually be to your advantage, since we all know most total caregivers suffer from burnout.

Since obviously neither of them are paying attention to you and your feelings, if you have the courage to step back and let him take care of all of her personal needs while not let either of them know how it’s really affecting you, as he burns completely out, it’s a great chance he will get sick of it. He may screams out and start looking for agencies on his on. He may create a whole list of them.

Using reversed psychology you can use that time while he’s burning out to take care of yourself and do something special for you. Like a child throwing a tantrum it takes all the fun out when they are ignored. They may both wonder who is this new you.

Since your mother in law is obviously controlling things and knows she has the power to physically control him and mentally upset you, you take away her power when you step back. Also when you ignore them both you may scare him since you say he does love you but doesn’t show it. This fear can force him to take on responsibilities.

Once he’s ready to intelligently make wise decisions about her future care then you can be prepared to listen and then Mother in law will be forced to respect everyone’s role, including her own and your home can have a degree of normalcy.
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I am in THE SAME situation except w have only been married 3.5 years and I have been dealing with this for 2 of these years.... his mother had a stroke and refused hospital, rehab, moving in with relative. She insists that he does it all and so does he. Neglects marriage, me, finances,house, chores his own bills. I end up paying our rent and his car and our other joint bills. I wish I had a solution for you. I am inquiring about divorce and legal protections as he has 60k in loans without consulting me for him and his mom and sister. I am praying for you. This is not normal.
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